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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2005 : 09:45:49 AM
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From what I've read, the Edirol would be useful for all kinds of recording jobs. My only problem with it is the price of the unit ($400+) and the CF cards it uses. My own preference is for Minidisc, which can be had for a lower base price and much lower media cost. The latest generation of Minidisc--the Hi-MD format--uses 1-gig discs and allows uncompressed 16-bit recording as well as a more-or-less-usable upload scheme. But for garden-variety audio-notebook work (or for more ambitious recording, for that matter), a standard-MD Sony MZ-B100 or B-10 are very handy devices. I'll re-evaluate when Edirol-style units drop $100 or so.
Here's a reasonably relevant thread from last year:
http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1653
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/14/2005 09:46:35 AM |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 10:09:54 AM
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I agree with Russell. I you just want something for recording practice sessions, then for size, portability and sound the MD is a heck of a product. I've done some pretty amazing field recordings with it, including the last three Aloha Music Camp student concerts. Last year I was able to buss it from a mixer and the quality was just fine. The DA converters are extremely good for the money so I have no problems with preamping it back to my ProTools studio.
My next portable rig will probably be a Presonus Firebox http://www.presonus.com/firebox.html into an Apple laptop. But here again we go from something that fits into your shirt pocket to hauling gear.
Good luck,
Dave |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 10:32:33 AM
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Hi Bing! Longtime no see.
I've been watching the Edirol R-1 for a while -- as far as I can tell it still isn't shipping. I'm hoping to get my hands on a review unit. If so, I'll let ya know what I think.
I'd have to agree with Russel & Dog, for the dough, capacity, and ease of use you can't beat the minidisc. I wasn't aware they'ed "fixed" the upload pproblems. But even without the ability to upload data and edit on the computer, it's still the format of choice.
The R-1 has some huge advantages for serious field work --- IF it works as advertised, and IF media prices come down. But no need to drop that kind of money on a practice rig.
cheers,
mark |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 11:47:05 AM
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I guess I will chime in here too.
Yes, the HI-MD minidisc has a far better price/performance ratio than the afore mentioned Edirol. And you CAN do a digital hi-speed upload without buying another unit (limited to ONE upload - Sony paranoia at work). You could do digital upload with the older minidisc, too, but you had to buy the upscale model of the component stereo unit and upload in real time from the SPDIF output. This is what I have been using and I just start the upload and do something else for a couple of hours. (I made an automated script using Autoit to invoke Audition and also stop the recording and save the file and exit).
However, for serious field recording, as Dave has hinted at, you need MORE THAN TWO CHANNELS. You need at least three, in order to take a (typically mono) mixer feed and also record the ambient sound. Recording the ambient sound is nearly mandatory because, in a lot of live situations, some important sounds are NOT fed thru the mixer, but an ambient only recording will often (but not always) yield mediocre results.
Since I have a decent Laptop computer now, I have been looking for exactly the kind of device Dr. Dave has listed, except I would pefer USB 2.0 rather than firewire (kind of a MAC vs PC thing), but if my Laptop supports firewire I may just buy one of those presonus things soon. (Thanks for the referral Dave)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 02/14/2005 12:14:03 PM |
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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 12:39:58 PM
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| Is the HI-MD minidisc compattable with a Mac? I have a G4 Power Book. |
Bing |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 1:12:56 PM
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Thanks Craig,
Looks like a nice unit. At one gig internal storage I probably couldn't use it for a long, continuous session at 24 bits without uploading to my computer. For Practice and performance, it's probably perfect. And for me, I'd rather not use WMA or OGG files.
Lawerence, once you use Firewire, even with a PC, your USB stuff will look like toys. I do most of my session work now with 7200 RPM, AIT, Firewire drives with no latency (well unless I've got 20 tracks and massive edits, then it'll burb a little)
Cool stuff!
Dave |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 1:25:08 PM
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| 1GB will store between 7 and 8 hours of stereo audio recorded at 44 KHz sample rate, 320 Mbps compression. Come down to 192 Mbps and you'll get around 12 to 13 hours. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 2:29:53 PM
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Craig,
Once I record into iriver can I then upload into Amadeus and itunes? The Sound is great by the way. |
Bing |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 2:36:36 PM
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Re: Hi-MD and Macs. No direct-data connections possible yet--the SonicStage application is WinTel only (and damn finicky even there). But I've lived with real-time analog transfers for years now, and I have no complaints about quality.
You should be able to find pre-release evaluations of the Edirol at the Oade.com site. The stealth-taping guys are already looking at ways to modify the electronics.
A note about using MP3-player-type recorders: They tend not to have mike inputs--line-in only--which means you need to add a mike pre-amp to the package. Tastes and needs vary, but I tend to avoid solutions that require too many boxes and cables. (That's why I like the Sony B-series MDs.)
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/14/2005 2:37:21 PM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 2:41:07 PM
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Yes, the iRiver connects to your Mac or Windows computer via an included USB cable and you then transfer the files via a drag-and-drop file manager application. (There is a firmware update available that allows the iRiver to mount as a USB drive but it limits the MP3 recording quality so don't use it.) The files are stored internally on the iRiver as .REC files (you can listen to them on the iRiver after you record them) and are automatically converted to .MP3 as they are copied over.
I researched other MP3 devices before buying the iRiver and there are certainly those that are cheaper and smaller. None, however, are more flexible when it comes to recording and that's why more people use the iRiver for this purpose than any other device. Incidentally, one nice feature is that you can monitor your recording with headphones while you're recording. (You can adjust the recording level prior to recording only, but you can monitor the level while doing so.)
My own iRiver is in my pocket as I type this...I use it with a noise-cancelling headset mic to record in the car on the commute home from work for one of my podcasts (http://bts.godcast.org ... a how-to show, not religious). I also have a set of in-ear binaural mics for recording ambient sound:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
Fun stuff! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 2:46:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Russell Letson
A note about using MP3-player-type recorders: They tend not to have mic inputs--line-in only--which means you need to add a mic pre-amp to the package.
Another reason why I went with the iRiver...you can switch its input between line-in and mic-in so there's no need for any external pre-amps. The sample recording referenced in my earlier post was done with the mic plugged straight into the iRiver. I've done my own recordings with it using a Sony ECM-MS907, a Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 in-ear binaural mic, and a Plantronics .audio 20 headset mic, all plugged directly into the iRiver, and they all sounded great!
If I sound excited about this product it's because I am...I've been looking for a reasonably priced, high quality, portable recording solution for years and this is it. Frankly if someone offered me my choice of this, a minidisc setup, or the Edirol for free (I've researched them all) I'd still take this. The only downside to it is that the built-in preamp for the mic-in isn't super clean (it's clean enough) so if you're recording a really quiet source you'll probably want to pick up a portable pre-amp and go into the line-in rather than the mic-in. (That would probably be true of the minidisc also though.) So far I haven't run into a situation where this has been necessary. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 02/14/2005 2:52:14 PM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 3:04:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
I use it with a noise-cancelling headset mic to record in the car on the commute home from work for one of my podcasts (http://bts.godcast.com ...
http://bts.godcast.org ! I fixed the link.  |
Andy |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 10:02:01 AM
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Craig,
the iRiver looks like a great unit. I have an iPod. Do you know if you can record music directly to it, or must you download through a computer? |
Karl
Frozen North |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 09:46:02 AM
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| The problem with recording on the iPod is that Apple crippled the recording capabilities to appease the recording industry, so with Apple's firmware it's only capable of voice-quality recording (and you have to buy a third-party interface such as the Griffin iTalk). If you have an 2G or 3G iPod and you're willing to experiment, you can bypass Apple's firmware with a Linux-based OS called podzilla and take full advantage of the hardware's recording capabilities and plug a mic directly into the iPod. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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