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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2005 : 12:52:50 PM
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I've started sending out a few CDs of home recordings, but it's not uncommon to have skips or other problems show up with CDs burned on my home computer. Sometimes the CDs will play on a computer, but have trouble with other types of CD players.
Anyone have any insight into burning more reliable CDs or which blanks to buy for best results?
Mahalo!
Jesse Tinsley
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kahealani
Akahai
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 1:49:23 PM
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One thing that helps is to burn your music on an audio CD-R or RW, because they are formatted for audio. Also, make sure you get a CD-R/RW that writes at a speed of 48x. It's faster and more reliable.
Hope this helps!! |
Brittni Paiva
www.brittnipaiva.com
www.myspace.com/brittnipaiva |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 2:49:29 PM
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Jesse,
I have gotten reports of dropouts depending on dye type and brand. CD Rs are more reliable, of course, than CD RWs. It seems as if the degradation is time dependant. It is also true that some audiophile decks of various vintages really like pressed pits rather than burnt dyes. I will try to find the references, but it will take a while.
This is not the old "green magic marker on the edge makes it sound better". There are real problems.
Sarah's boss has told her crew that computer burnable CDs of *any* kind, are *not* archival and they are going to DVD media. I, for one, hope that she is right and that there is *something* out there that will last at least 5 years.
I'll look into it.
...Reid
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 3:24:04 PM
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Sarah is right about the archival value. CD-Rs are not the way to archive, but that's not the question here (but it's a major part of it)
There are only two or three companies that actually manufacture all the CD-R abd CD-RW media. Sure, they are off-shored as OEM by the same three companies. All the CD media out there will do an adequate job of having laser dimples cut into them, so my advice is to buy the cheapest stuff you can find. Discs are not pre-formatted for anything, they are formatted by your software and that's where the secret lies. Make sure that the audio burning software that you are using is Red Book compatible and if you are having problems with your discs, make sure you let the software "verify" the disc. I never burn discs with software that's also able to make "data" discs. Use dedicated Audio software.
Lawrence will probably argue with me about speed, but I never burn faster than 4x, using the cheapest media I can find, I haven't had a rejection in over 2000 discs AND they play on every player I've used. I will say that if I'm going to a glass master for final pressing, I use top of the line Taiko Yuden CD-R cut at 1x.
Jesse, the CD you sent me played just fine. Good stuff.
Dave
PS: The only good archival media is still tape
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 4:02:34 PM
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Thanks everyone for the info.
I've gotten other advice, too: I've had people tell me to use CD-RWs instead of CDRs because the inner layer is metal vs. dye. I've had others tell me to slow down to 2X or 4X instead of letting the software default to the highest speed. Others have told me to only use audio CDRs instead of data, though most of us use data CDRs because they're cheap and usually work okay.
What do you get when you send a CD off to a commercial CD producer like the music companies use? Do they do something different that makes them last longer or be more reliable?
Slack dog, do you have a recommendation for an audio burning software? I've used Nero, IBM Record Now and Roxio.
Jesse Tinsley
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Edited by - hapakid on 03/02/2005 9:40:10 PM |
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kahealani
Akahai
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 4:17:21 PM
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Yes, there is a different type of disc. I forgot the name of it, but I remember that it was some sort of expensive, high quality CD-R.
I got one when I finished recording in the studio, however, the manufacturer has it at the moment. 
As for the CD-R/RW part - The better thing to do is to buy a reletivly expensive CD-R. It is much more reliable, has higher quality, lasts longer, etc.
I dunno. Just my $.02.  |
Brittni Paiva
www.brittnipaiva.com
www.myspace.com/brittnipaiva |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 5:15:04 PM
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Jesse,
This is not a recommendation since I don't use a PC. I did an extensive search and it looks like Roxio Media Creator 7 is Redbook compatible. Truthfully, if all you're doing is sending out CD-Rs to a select group of people it doesn't really matter. Just burn at the highest speed that your software and computer will let you do and have fun. If you get to the point where you're going to release a commercial CD, the mastering engineer will probably send a DAT tape to the recording house anyway, so you don't have to worry about it.
About CD-RWs. How many times would you record over and old analog cassette tape? The molecules have to be rearranged first, then recorded over. With each pass you lose some of the ferrous oxide (or whatever is being used) or the ability to rearrange the magnetic field, so you get less and less ability to store data. With a CD-RW, the old dimples have to be melted flat and new dimples replaced. This can only happen so many times without destroying the layed that accepts the data. CD-RWs are junk, especially when you can buy CD-Rs for very cheap.
FYI: Take your old CD-Rs and place them between your Christmas tree lights and the base. They make great reflectors.
Again, I'm not trying to get techie. If you are burning CDs a couple at a time for friends or demo purposes, buy cheap. Put them in your CD player. If they work, send them off. If not, use them as coasters or frisbees. At a few cents a piece, it doesn't really matter.
Dave
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 9:38:47 PM
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Thanks Dave, Reid and Brittni,
I have purchased some no-name CDs that turned out to be dogs (frequent aborted burns for no reason), but I have had good results with TDK, Memorex, Sony and other name brands. I've purchased top quality CDs for archiving only.
It seems like I've handled home-burned disks until they get a little scratch and then the darn things skip, skip, skip. On the other hand, I have 20 year old commercially produced disks that are heavily abraided like they were laying in the streets of Pamplona during the running of the bulls and they still play okay. Hmmmm.
Even though I'm just sending out CDs for fun, I want them to last and play right the first time.
Mahalo for the kokua.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2005 : 04:44:23 AM
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Jesse,
Dave's experience is the same as mine and reminds me that we have a *system* here - software, hardware, media and, finally, CD player/deck- and any part of it could be a problem - or not.
I have used Roxio and a 4x max TDK CD/DVD burner-reader forever, and never had a problem, but Dave's suggestions about verify and slow burn speed make a lot of sense - the latter is pure physics. It doesn't bother me to burn at 4x, and I verify only for things I really want to keep.
One of the many things that can go wrong is that the tracks that are burnt are not spaced the way a reader expects to see them. When this technology was first sold, lots of people could read CDs on the device that burned them, but not on other devices. That is one of the many reasons for adhering to standards.
About surface blemishes: it can depend on the direction of the scratch. Radial is not so bad ( a line center to edge), circumferential is bad (along the curve of the track/CD edge) because the former means just a few bits in a track are clobbered and the error correction hardware/sofware can deal with it. CD stereo decks also have varying abilities to track and/or deal with errors. We had a deck once that choked on absolutely every little piece of dust; you couldn't see a blemish with a magnifier. Its tracking feedback servos were, it turned out, really poorly designed. Had to trash it. We have had a Sony, that is absolutely bullet proof, for years and we repaired a minor problem rather than getting a new one and trusting a new deck (even though the prices have dropped significanly so that choosing the repair surprised the tech).
The commercially produced disks, especially those produced just after the technology got over its teething problems, were/are *pressed* and have real, honest to gosh, pits in them. Some had protective layers and the reading laser's focal point is below the surface of the disk, at the actual pit - I don't know what the situation is now. So, it is harder to hurt them.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 03/03/2005 04:47:02 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2005 : 07:40:48 AM
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Having some professional experience in this area here are some of my comments:
Good CDRs:
Caveat Emptor: Usually name brands are best and until recently I would have trusted TDK above many others. But recently, I purchased a Spindle of TDK disks from COSTCO and burned 20 of them, only to find that all of them had correction failure noise (kind of a scratchy sound) in my oldest player (too bad I already had the labels attached). I went & got some Maxell (not Memorex - Memorex was never a real media company, just a remarketing outfit) and they work fine. I suspect that these TDKs from Costco are "specially cost reduced" (which means quality reduced). Most stuff from Costco is that way (like the Levi's jeans with fewer belt loops, fewer riviets and fewer stitches than normal)
Having said that:
Yes- Dr. Dave is right, there are fewer Manufacturers than it would appear from the brand names. Taiyo Yuden actually makes most of the Mold Masters for the blank substrates, so their name appears in tiny print on the inside of many, many brands. A greater number of companies apply the reflective layer (usually aluminum) and active media layers to the blanks.
The very best CDRs that I am aware of are made by Mitsui, and believe it or not, they have a plant in Colorado! They cost about 80 cents each in spindles of 100 and use an actual gold reflective layer. I think they are suffering because so many people are happy to buy the cheap crap and do not recognize the difference till it is too late. My ranking of CDR Brands: 1) Mitsui (gold on gold), 2) Maxell, 3) Sony, 4) TDK. Do not buy "GQ" or other no name brands unless you like to loose data, even if they work at first they will not last.
Burn Speed: No fixed given speed is best! It all depends upon the design of the burner. Burning too slow can be as bad as burning too fast, some burners do not have good control of the Laser Power at low power levels (slow speeds). A good rule of thumb is to burn at 50% to 70% of the maximum speed of a given burner. Burning at highest speed is like driving you Honda Civic at 130MPH... it will do it... but not too well! (The manufacter's want to brag about their speed, so they will push everything to the limit to hit the marketing numbers.)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/03/2005 07:58:29 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2005 : 07:58:25 AM
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Thanks for the info. You've all been very helpful.
Jesse Tinsley |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2005 : 4:57:19 PM
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A little more information about CD production:
I've been doing a little research on duplication services for CDs. There are many out there. But short run projects are generally burned onto CDRs while larger projects, usually 1000 or more, can be had for a good price from a replicator who will stamp the CDs (by making and using a glass master stamper) to give you commercial quality CDs that should last a long time and be trouble free in older players and car stereos, the places a burned CDR is likely to skip.
The price isn't much different from burned projects to stamped projects, you just have to order more to get stamped CDs. Those that do short run audio CDs usually don't guarantee skip-free playing in CD players over seven years old or in car stereos.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
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