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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2005 : 10:05:15 AM
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Ok, I have mostly gotten the hang of recording and editing and multitracking, but yesterday I got a surprise. I was experimenting with the Full Reverb presets in Audition 1.5 - there are about 15-20 of them. I was using a guitar and vocal test recording of Sarah. For lots of reasons, Sarah's voice and the guitar's tone aren't all that different in the frequency spectrum, except for attack/rise time. Most of the results were predictable (and predictably unpleasant or inappropriate), but a few gave results that I can't figure out.
For instance, "modest plate reverb" (or whatever it is called) and a few like it (like "dry room"), made the vocal "jump to the front" and dropped the guitar "presence" and, I think, amplitude. Given that reverb is basically delay (or a series of delays and echoes) how did that happen? I would have thought that only EQ and amplification modification could do that. Also, some of that effect wasn't too bad sounding, and I could imagine that, with some tweaking, it could be "a good thing", although, I am basically against that.
So, any ideas?
...Reid
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 10:19:23 AM
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Hi Reid,
It's happened to me, too, while using Garageband. It seems the pre-designed reverbs and delays will drastically alter the sound of the mix when applied to one channel only. Dunno why, but it probably has something to do with using digital effects, which affect various parameters of the entire track, rather than just adding layers of echo and delay.
If someone knows the answer, I probably won't understand it, but now I tend to add some kind of digital effects to every track, or only to the master track.
Jesse |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 11:24:13 AM
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Hey Jesse,
Glad it is not only me. But, I applied the effects to the semifinal mixdown (all tracks, mixed to 2 channels), because I wanted to find out how the whole thing would sound in various synthetic environments. There are many "options" that are set, or can be tweaked, that I really don't grok, and I suppose that one or more of the ones I don't dig, created what I described. Why they should, however, is the mystery.
Calling all Tweaks...
...Reid |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 09:27:29 AM
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Reid,
One thing to remember about MOST of the presets in Audition... they are mostly extreme examples of what CAN be done (but not what SHOULD be done). You must read about and understand EVERY adjustment available and then spend a lot of time tweaking to find your preferred settings. The best overall reverb in Audition is the one called "Full Reverb" as it is the most accurate and adustable one. Many things (like vocals) should be "verbed" spearately in the mix, and it is usually best to keep the dry track and make seperate "wet" tracks that you can mix-in at varying amounts over the take. At least, this would be an approach if you were recording everything on a seperate track.
Delay and Reverb add together signals with varying phase relationships so, naturally, you are going to get boost and cancellation effects (just like a real reverb space does). Also the ear localizes some sounds based on early-arrival so you can move the apparent location of a sound by using delay as well as amplitude. I am sure this is all mentioned in the references that Dave has posted above. Just rememeber... Reverb is an endless subject  .
You may also want to try using impulse files if there is a place that you like the sound of (just to get even deeper into the "well" of info).
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 11:43:58 AM
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quote:
Also, some of that effect wasn't too bad sounding, and I could imagine that, with some tweaking, it could be "a good thing", although, I am basically against that.
Reid, not to jump on you personally, but you opened an interesting little can 'o slithery things.
I will never understand the "don't add anything to my precious recording because I want it to sound completely natural" way of thinking. There is absolutely nothing "natural" about sticking a microphone a few inches in front of a guitar, voice, or swinette; running it through a bunch of electronics to boost the signal, then slicing it up into little discreet parts and storing it on you hard drive. And then reversing the process....
Effects, EQ, Dynamics, and all the other processing tricks are tools to make the recording sound good. If you want a "natural" sounding recording, you have to tweak it to get past the limitations of the technology. Mic's don't hear like ears do. ADCs & DACs don't let all the frequencies through. Speakers don't work as well as a guitar moving air in a room. It ain't natural, I tell ya!
A good recording is one that sounds good. Period. Engineers use the tools at hand to fool your ear into thinking something coming out of two speakers is a three dimensional, breathing entity. That's art and maybe just a little magic, not nature.
We now return to your regular programming.
Mark
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 11:55:57 AM
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quote:
For instance, "modest plate reverb" (or whatever it is called) and a few like it (like "dry room"), made the vocal "jump to the front" and dropped the guitar "presence" and, I think, amplitude.
Plate reverbs have been a studio staple for vocals since the early days. The accepted trick is to do a short, warm plate on the lead voice to add roundness and bring it to the front of the mix, plus some kind of longer "hall" or "chamber" effect mixed back (and maybe panned to one side) to give it spaciousness. Done right, you don't hear the effects. You just think you're listening to a great vocal.
Plates also are pretty standard for guitars -- often what's called a "bright" plate. If your using a single plate for both, my guess is the preset you chose was "warm" which simply means it's got some damping of the hi freqs. That would tend to make the guitar sound a tad distant compared to the voice, as the zing of the strings would be affected more than the body of the vocal.
Or I could be totally wrong.
Cheers,
m |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 2:09:51 PM
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Thanks guyz,
You pointed me in the right direction for learning more.
I will amost certainly raise more slithery things in the future, until you get tired of edjamacating me.
Mahalo,
...Reid
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 2:52:36 PM
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Thanks for the plain English answers everyone. You've been very helpful.
Jesse Tinsley |
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