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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
 Posted - 04/03/2005 : 8:34:23 PM
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Gordon, let me offer a slightly different perspective on the specific question of the thumb bumping into adjacent strings. Perhaps a guitar with a wider string spacing would improve the situation.
I bought my first fingerstyle guitar, a Martin OM-18V, because I really bonded with that instrument the first time I picked it up. And because the mahogany guitar was several hundred bucks cheaper than a rosewood OM-28V. Later I discovered that I had stumbled on the production guitar with the widest bridge spacing available, and this 2 3/8" spacing let me operate my picking hand in a very relaxed way. I discovered that even the 2 5/16" spacing of the Martin 000-28VS was "tight" and required an uncomfortable adjustment. When I succumbed to koa Goodall fever I learned that the even more narrow spacing of that guitar was even more uncomfortable.
Since then I've only considered guitars with my preferred bridge spacing. One of the things that happens on guitars with closer spacing is exactly the kind of interference between thumb and string that you describe. If it's convenient for you, perhaps you could try a guitar with wider spacing at the bridge. As far as I know, Martin and Merrill are the two makers that use this geometry. The Martin OM-18V, OM-18GE, OM-28GE, the new OM-28 Marquis, and Merrill OMs come with 2 3/8" bridge. The Martin OM-28V, 000-28VS, and D-18GE use 2 5/16" spacing.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 09:32:01 AM
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Fran's one step ahead of me, only having used nut width as a factor in guitar selection. I'm finding this interesting. I find my fingers a bit crowded with a narrow nut, but still playable.
However, one thing I always keep in mind is the fact that many guitarists whom I admire are self-taught, and probably advanced on the only instruments which were available to them. Any guitarist will spend lots of time analyzing problems and developing solutions. As Bing described, I imagine all of us spend time looking at the fingers, watching how nails meet the strings, or noticing now to cleanly fret difficult chords while remaining set up for what comes next.
This weekend I went to a guitar festival, watching four absolutley remarkable guitarists representing different approaches toward technique. Three were national fingerpicking champions. Certainly, after watching an event like this, I am left with the feeling that they each have a few fundamentals in common, but that the time each of them have spent experimenting has taught them vastly different solutions. Two of them picked with two fingers, one with three and one with four. All were extremely mobile fore and aft. All had improvisational ability, performing instinctively around chord structures. One played mostly with the palm of the fretting hand on the neck, and with picks sticking out far beyond the fingertips. Is there any right and wrong? Only your hands, tone and fluidity will tell.
Today we are living at a time when learning comes easy, and the array of instruments at our disposal is staggering. As a child I would play a 33 1/3 lp at 16 speed to break down a song. Now we have dvds, tabledit with adjustible tempo, and band in a box. We can analyze techniques of guitarists easily, and discuss fine points on the internet. As a child, I had a couple photographs to look at, occasional live performances for observation, and mentoring off people in my small circle. Now we even have physical therapists for guitarists. There was less opportunity for paralysis through analysis.
I ususally think it's wrong to blame the guitar, because usually technique is the solution. Fine guitars with selective spacing are a luxury, not a requirement. A fine teacher is also a luxury, and one might diagnose problems with fundamentals. But I see lots of people who are stuck swapping out guitars and tinkering, when time spent playing is the answer. As with anything else, if you want to get good ... some things you have to tough-out. Nice thing about guitar, even the toughing it out is fun. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 10:25:04 AM
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Right on David
Kiwini asked in a post if there was a 12 step program for slack key. Yup. Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, change your strings, practice, practice, practice,practice. Yes, of course, get the videos, get some personal lessons, jam with others, find a guitar you like, listen to as much music as possible. We all like to debate the relative virtues of neck with, string spacing, sacale length, capos, builders, woods,picks vs fingers, artificial nails and the best brand of peanut butter, but practice is the only answer to making things work. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 11:10:37 AM
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When I was old enough to buy my first car, the prospect of wheels clouded my judgement. I sold my treasured Martin 000-28 and bought my bright red Ausin Healy 3000 (which I totalled a couple years later). But, during my healy phase I remained guitarless. I was tinkering around in a buddy's basement and noticed a couple guitars hanging from the ceiling. I picked the better one down and started playing. My friend offered me the junky guitar, which I took gladly.
I think this guitar was an old Stella student model. Frankly, it was wretched, with ground down frets, lofty action, and the beginnings of neck warp. But took it I did, and I played it for two years. The second and third frets were so bad that I had to bend the strings when fretting there to avoid buzz. But I challenged myself to playing this thing and refused the notion of an upgrade. I imagined the old timers playing what was available, and making the best of it. Tell you, that guitar made some beautiful music until the neck warp became so bad that it was unplayable. I gave it a solemn viking funeral, dousing it with lighter fluid and sent it sailing into the bay with my gratitude.
The lesson for me was that almost any guitar feels like a luxury in comparison, and almost any guitar is capable of producing fine music. I certainly love making trips down to the music store to sample nice instruments, but generally resist the urge. Playing's the thing. |
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akahele
Aloha
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 10:07:11 PM
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Gordon,
Well here's my $0.03 worth (inflation you know) regarding buzzing the adjacent string with your thumb. Have you tried tilting the guitar back slightly? This is one of those easier to show than describe things but if you think of someone who is hunched over a guitar it is usually because they are trying to see the fretboard more clearly. Well if you sat up straighter and just tilted the top of the guitar back slightly, you can achieve the same sight picture regarding the fretboard and the beauty of this is that the clearance between your thumb and the string above the one you're trying to pick increases slightly. Of course this assumes that you don't rotate your right hand around to compensate for the new angle. It seems to work for me - I tend to slouch normally and when I find myself buzzing strings with my thumb, I'll sit up straighter and tilt the guitar slightly and this really reduces my buzzing problem. It doesn't take much tilt - like others have said, experiment with it and maybe you'll find a solution.
Clif |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 01:35:44 AM
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Yes, I will keep trying some different guitars and setups...
I'm slow to sell and move on...partly the hassle of selling and I have some attachment to the nice koa Back Goodall, but if the right guitar and deal/exchange came along, I would consider.
Can't really just "collect" on my tax bracket!
I also believe I sit pretty straight, but will take a closer look in daylight-- and check my tilt.
I use a foot rest and don't have too bad a hump...hump, what hump?
Heffalumps are excellent guitar players...and Tiggers too. |
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 11:14:46 AM
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Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
Edited by - Kiwini on 04/06/2005 2:22:37 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 5:27:59 PM
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| Like they said, keep it comfortable. I use a ground down Dobro thumbpick and 2 Jim Dunlop medium guage brass finger picks bent tightly over my finger tips. When playing seated, I position the box so that it's slanting away from me-ie, the old picture of Blind Lemon Jefferson. Watching Led at a jam, he did somewhat the same thing. It lets you hear your guitar. For the left hand barres, I only hold down 5 strings, I use my thumb on the low D on the 7th fret for an A chord. Comfort and efficiency, and like Mark said, if you're concerned about damage, check with a professional. |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2005 : 04:27:28 AM
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Just a thought about barres ...
When I have trouble with a barre, yet I've still managed to place my finger properly so that no strings fell into the wrinkly joint crack, I focus my "pressure" on the string that I'm having trouble getting clean, and let the rest get sloppy if they have to. Of course, it's usually strings 4 or 5 that give me a problem. So I press more with the last joint of my index finger at that time.
This makes doing a barre not a simple motion. It is a flexible exercise following the music. I don't want to make it sound *too* complicated, though! It's just that you have to know your music, know where you are going to have a problem, and press especially for that problem, then go back to your former barre pressure.
aloha,
Sarah |
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garson
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2005 : 09:09:15 AM
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| Anybody know how to help me? Never had a guitar lesson and my right hand has never gelled. My problem is that my first finger tires out. I've had this problem all my life, but it has gotten worse as I age and especially over last 3 years as I have started to play guitar a whole lot. As the finger tires it needs a wider arc to strike the string, and soon it just flops around and accuracy suffers. In the last year I have given up trying to fix it. I just use my second finger in place of the first. So I am now reduced to thumb and second finger, using my first only when i need to get two notes at once. This makes life easier in lots of ways. Somehow my brain does better when there are fewer fingers to manage. But my hand shure looks funnny with that "dead" first finger just dangling there. You also get a differnt tone since the second finger comes in at a different angle. Mebbie I should settle for what works, .... but I'd love to get a "normal" right hand where hvae the use of my first finger. |
Jim Garson |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2005 : 11:40:02 AM
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my b-in-law is a magician, and he uses a set of finger exercises to strengthen his hands. perhaps it might help you....
http://handhealth.com/
aloha,
keith
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2005 : 2:38:23 PM
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Jim,
I am not exactly a hypochondriac nor a doctor, but I have had a *lot* of dealings with docs, especially orthopods (and Sarah used to work in the Orthopedic Surgery dept. at Yale Med School), and I have never, ever heard of the kind of symptoms you have. John (jwn) is right - get your butt to a specialist hand orthopod (orthopods specialize in a narrow range of joints) as fast as your legs can carry you. Again, make sure it is a *hand* doc and make sure he/she is Certified. Also, it may *not* be a joint/muscle issue, it could be neurological. So, make sure the doc does what is called a "differential diagnosis" and puts you on the right track. Be a Concerned Consumer. Good Luck.
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Edited by - Reid on 05/04/2005 2:39:46 PM |
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garson
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 11:47:46 AM
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Thanks to john kieth and reid for the advice. No real pain. it just gets tired. I had worried about a neurological issues long ago but I did nothing since I wasn't serious enough about playing for it to matter to my life. The exercise idea makes sense, (at least it can't hurt) and I will see about a good hand doctor.
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Jim Garson |
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