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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2005 : 09:10:18 AM
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Help!!
When I attempt to do a barre chord where I have to reach three frets on strings 1, 2 and sometimes 3, I lose clarity on strings 3,4 and 5.
Its hard for me to apply enough pressure and I feel like I'm working too hard. When I use my middle finger for back-up I lose reach. Any suggestions?
Kiwini
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Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
Edited by - Kiwini on 04/02/2005 3:00:29 PM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 10:33:24 AM
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Kiwini,
It seems as though you are squeezing the neck if you're using your middle finger for back up. Try this instead: Rotate your wrist slightly so that your thumb position is on or near the middle of the neck and your palm opens up towards you. Then bring the index down, not hard, but enough to give each string a clear tone. By changing the position and angle of your thumb on the back of the neck, you end up using leverage instead of finger pressure.
Hand size does make a difference. My hands are small, when I have to barre a chord the meaty part (last digit) of my thumb is usually dead center. By changing the position of my thumb slightly, I am able to bring even pressure accross the bar and extend four frets comfortably. You should avoid using your middle finger to apply additional pressure.
Peter M |
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 5:02:05 PM
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Thanks Peter, I tried it. That's exactly what I was looking for. Seems so much easier now and much more clear. Seems my guitar can breath easier now too!
Mahalo Nui,
Kiwini
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Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 7:28:00 PM
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Mahalo nui loa Peter!!!!
I have really been struggling.... because for 40 yrs I've cradled the neck in the palm of my hand. All those years I just avoided barring and played in a different key if need be (standard tuning, of course)
Now it's going to take a lot of working on making something feel natural that doesn't right now.
thanks again1!!
nancy |
nancy cook |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 01:39:31 AM
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Yes, these guys are da best...
I offered a little wind on this over on the Left hand techniques post-- where I saw you mention this concern.
But we have a few real guitar gurus here...think I'll try to watch and listen now.
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 08:58:15 AM
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Yeah Gordon, After I posed the question to you, I realized that I shouldn't step on your topic and create a hiccup in your thread. Sorry eh? So I created a solo topic. That being said, I really appreciate your advice immensely. Perhaps you could re-post to this topic as I'm absolutely certain that others could benefit from your advice.
Mahalo to all for your kokua!
Kiwini |
Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
Edited by - Kiwini on 04/02/2005 3:02:23 PM |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 7:18:36 PM
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Hi guys!
I spoke with Bill Beizel today about the barring and he showed me something interesting. He said pick a string and press down on the 1st and 11th frets. There should barely be any clearance at the 5th fret. If there's more, it'll be harder to barr - and it's an easy adjustment. So I'll take my guitar into the shop as soon as I can to get it "adjusted".
Hopefully, Bill will add to this -
n |
nancy cook |
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Fingerpickin
Lokahi
117 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 6:53:15 PM
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Auntie Nancy,
Relief and "action" can surely affect your ability to play barre chords.
When I got my Martin a year ago, the action was near perfect; however, after a few months in our humid Oahu weather, the action raised considerably and I had to get a "Hawaii set-up."
This consisted of lowering the saddle and adjusting the radius. In my case, there was no truss rod adjustment but that can possibly help as well.
Using lighter strings ie, lights as opposed to mediums, can make barre chords easier to play. In addition, if you are only playing say strings 1-5, there is no reason to barre the 6th (thickest) string. (You can use this when playing Ozzies rendition of "Molehu.") Not pushing down on strings that you arent going to play anyway makes it easier.
I strongly agree with what Pete said above. It is my >>opinion<< that you should have your thumb planted squarely on the back of the neck, and never wrapped about the neck like so many people do. I've met great guitarists who can get away with this, but not many. Having your thumb squarely in the back of the neck gives leverage and allows the fingers to fret notes cleanly, as the fingers come in at a ~90 degree angle.
Sorry to get technical, just my 2 cents.
-Lance |
"Hey Lance, try watch." -Ozzie |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 7:06:36 PM
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Mahalo Lance!!
I am working on putting my thumb in the middle of the back of the neck. I have lightweight Pearse strings on. I just feel like I have a crooked finger - or as I angle it to the side, I become a wuss - it hurts... I haven't toughened up that hand.
Thanks, I'll keep all those things in mind, and go to the shop tomorrow.
I'll let you know if I can ever barre chords - for Molehu, I've cheated a bit and it works.
auntie |
nancy cook |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 08:25:55 AM
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Kiwini,
Up until i started playing slack key, all the barring i had done was full chords, so the middle strings were always covered by a finger other than the barring finger, therefore, no buzz or loss of tone. With slack key, and any open tuning, really, you often play a full barre and then play notes 1, 2 or even 3 frets upfrom the barre with a single finger. This certanily leaves no room for "cheateing" with an extra finger on top of the barre finger. I had sort of learned to live with the less-than-clear tone until i got a lesson from Hal Kinnamon last year. His suggestion, quite simple really, was to place the barring finger slightly behind the fret and pulling the finger up the neck to the fret. This sort of rolls the skin on the barring finger and does two thing that i can see;
1. it gets the meatier part of the finger out of the way so there is a harder surface on the string
2. it puts the other 3 fretting fingers a little farther up the neck than if you were just to plunk the 1st finger down normally.
I hope the description of the technique is something you can follow, because it sure cured my problem. It even works on the 12-string. Takes some conscious effort to begin with, but once yu get used to it, it is an automatic movement, and the results are very rewarding.
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Karl
Frozen North |
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 1:58:47 PM
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Aloha Karl,
If I understand you correctly, there is a two part movement. Setting the barre and then slide forward into the next fret. I know its not two distinct and separate moves but that they are synchronized to look like one.
Am I right?
Steve
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Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 2:53:31 PM
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Aloha Kaua,
So I tried to adjust my left hand position per Peter and it helped a lot but even still I would get some deadness occasionally. So I know more practice will help. I tried F taropatch and whoa! Along with new left hand position it's really easy. So because of Lance's post and Auntie Nancy's comment from Bill, I began to wonder if my guitar could benefit from a visit to the chiropractor for an adjustment. It seems there is a good amount of action (is action the up and down travel of the string?) and I am using mediums.
I'm still playing with the roll, Karl.
Mahalo in advance for your comments,
Steve
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Me Ke Aloha,
Steve |
Edited by - Kiwini on 04/06/2005 3:17:27 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 4:17:12 PM
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| Sometimes you can get a string in the "crease" of your finger and won't get a good bar on that string. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 7:39:26 PM
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Steve,
Yes, you got it right in theory. Getting it right in practice is like everything else in life; a bit more of a challenge. After I wrote the last post I went to play and had a hard time with my own advice. It is not easy, but when you get the roll correctly it gives me a much clearer sound. Except when, as Raymond said, youget a string in the crease of your finger. Not sure how you fix that.
And, yes, action is the up-down movement of the strings. The higher the action the tougher the barre. The lower you tune the beast (as i F taropatch) the easier the barre, but get too low in action or from too low a string tension (try tuning down to Eb taropatch!) and you start getting buzzes from the barres and the single notes as well. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 7:52:49 PM
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| Karl - you "fix" "string in crease of finger" by being careful where you position your finger when you barre. Move it up or down until you get all strings on flesh |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 09:33:46 AM
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Yeah, well Raymond, that's easy for you to say:)
Same deal as the roll...you just have to practice so many things! And,. all at once, too! |
Karl
Frozen North |
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