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Fingerpickin
Lokahi
117 Posts |
 Posted - 04/08/2005 : 6:14:03 PM
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Aloha, fellow Slackers!
I was studying my music theory tapes ("Absolutley Understand Guitar"} the other day and I stumbled upon a VERY useful tip for Slack Key players.
When playing harmonics (chimes) it is sometimes difficult to get a good, solid tone on the 7th or particularly, the 5th fret harmonic.
What I learned is that the harmonic is actually directly above the fret; when you play harmonics/chimes try playing directly above the fret bar instead of between, and you'll likely notice a difference. I know I did.
Many of you probably know this already, but I didn't and I've been playing 20+ years!
God Bless,
-Lance
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"Hey Lance, try watch." -Ozzie |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 04:32:43 AM
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Lance,
Good info. Many people don't know that. Another secret I picked up from Keola is that the harmonics at 5 and 7 will be clearer if you pick the string a little closer to the bridge.
Dave |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 06:35:16 AM
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Bob Brozman was at Georges Camp last year, and gave us a very useful little tip for fine tuning a guitar that is tuned to D-G-D-G-B-D (taro patch). I have always been bothered by the way the B string sounds wierd when playing in the key of G, even when tuned to an electronic tuner. The best way to get the problem resloved is through harmonics.
1) Generate a harmonic on the higher G string with your finger above the 9th fret. It is not a very strong harmonic so use Dave's suggestion above.
2) Generate a harmonic on the B string with your finger above the 5th fret. This harmonic is a bit stronger.
3) The two should match exactly. If they do not, adjust the B string until they do.
4) Once they match, check the B string against your electronic tuner. The B string will usually register just a hair flat - but trust your harmonics, not the tuner. The discrepancy is due to a fluke in Western Music Theory, and the invention of the "Well Tempered" piano.
-Konabob
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Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 08:50:47 AM
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quote:
The discrepancy is due to a fluke in Western Music Theory, and the invention of the "Well Tempered" piano.
Well, not entirely a fluke. It also turns out that the harmonics of a vibrating string AREN'T (harmonics that is!). That is to say the propagation speed of each harmonic wave in the string is slighty different, the higher the frequency the slower the propagation, so each successive harmonic is slighty flatter than the previous one. This is why a single string will ring with a varying amplitude (even on a single string insrument) as the harmonics phase in and out. The effect is worse for steel strings than it is for gut or plastic strings because the steel sustains more harmonics. Well-temperment (as opposed to equal temperment) was a compromise worked out so that the harmonics of a lower piano or clavier string would line up (on average) better with higher strings. The guitar fretboard tries to achieve the same thing, but the compromise is even worse as the frets are not individually and independently tuneable for each string. This is one advantage that a fretless instrument has (in the hands of someone with a good ear that is).
This is my understanding from studying the physics of the issue.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 10:32:52 AM
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| I recently saw a fine guitarist, picking off the complementary chimes above the 12th fret. He would nail them with his index finger and pick it with his ring or middle finger. At the same time his thumb was picking bass and another finger notes on another string. Actually, he was doing this on a harp guitar, with seven additional bass strings. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 10:59:25 AM
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Ledward does "false harmonics" above the 12th fret to play melodies that sound a lot like a steel guitar. False harmonics or artificial harmonics are played by finding the half-way point (or other node) on a fretted string rather than an open one, then picking as David describes. In the hands of a master like Ledward the resultant harmonic can be slid or hammered to a different note. Awesome!
Many classical players are very adept with harmonics, as are Muriel Anderson and the late Chet Atkins and Lenny Breau. These folks often weave harmonics into melodies and arpeggios along with fundamental notes for startling intervallic effects.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2005 : 11:52:01 AM
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Well, Harmonics are a good aid to tuning when you don't have a good ear too. If you can feel beats in the guitar, then it's not perfectly tuned. (this from my days in standard tuning)
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nancy cook |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 04:40:38 AM
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Reid and I have seen both Muriel Anderson and Tommy Emmanuel do extraordinary pieces entirely with artificial chimes, moving their hands all over the fretboard. It's scary! And mind-boggling, but I'm sure it's just a matter of practice, to learn to jump fast to just where you need to be for each note. Anyway, the effect is very neat.
aloha,
Sarah |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 04:45:09 AM
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I, too, have found moving your hand down toward the bridge for picking any chime will help you get a more brilliant chime - that and having good aim with your chiming finger on the left hand. The smaller the surface contact it seems, the better, so some people use their little finger, or a finger that has a more "pointy" pad. It only takes a little experimentation.
aloha,
Sarah |
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Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 12:28:13 PM
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| Not that it matters, but once, many moons ago, I was talking to Christopher Parkening about 'chimes'. He politely corrected me by saying, 'Do you mean HARMONICS?'. From that time on, I have never been able to say 'chimes' again (although that is exactly what they sound like to me). |
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Kiwini
Lokahi
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 12:45:31 PM
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I wish I knew how fo play harmonica.
Great stuff! If I may add my two cents worth,
We often talk about harmonics from the nth harmonic such as the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th harmonic. We also talk about harmonics from their fret position such as 12th, 7th, or 5th fret. But from a basic yet interesting view, we are simply talking about linear ratios of a string.
For example: pluck a string, any string, between the nut and the bridge and you have generated what can be referred to as the fundamental frequency of that string. It is also called the FIRST harmonic of that string. Therefore: 1st harmonic = 1 length of the string.
If you create a harmonic chime at the 12th fret, it is called the 2nd harmonic. It is one octave higher than the fundamental frequency and physically occurs at the half-way point of the string as measured from between the nut to the bridge. Therefore: 1/2 of the strings length = 2nd harmonic.
If you create a harmonic chime at the 7th fret, you have now generated the 3rd harmonic. It is 1-1/2 octaves higher than the fundamental frequency, and physically occurs at a point which is equal to 1/3 of the length of that string as measured from the nut to the bridge. Therefore: 1/3 of the strings length = 3rd harmonic. (the same harmonic also occurs at a point 2/3 up the string from the nut end, which is somewhere above the 12th fret)
If you create a harmonic chime at the 5th fret, you have now generated the 4th harmonic. It is 2 octaves higher than the fundamental frequency, and physically occurs at a point which is equal to 1/4 of the length of that string(5th fret) as measured from the nut to the bridge. Therefore: 1/4 of the strings length = 4rd harmonic. (the same harmonic also occurs at a point 3/4 up the string from the nut end.)
In summation:
1 L = 1st harmonic = fundamental frequency
1/2 L = 2nd harmonic = 1 octave higher
1/3 L = 3rd harmonic = 1-1/2 octaves higher
1/4 L = 4th harmonic = 2 octaves higher
Where L = length of string from nut to bridge.
Take out a tape measure, do the math. Tings dat make you go hmmmmmm! Anyway, just my own two cents. OK 5 cents.
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Me Ke Aloha,
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Edited by - Kiwini on 04/12/2005 12:51:07 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 04:47:06 AM
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| I use my thumb on the 6th string, 11th fret, index finger on the 4th string 11th fret, and "chime" the 3rd and 2nd strings on the 12th fret for an implied A9. Bluegrassers call them "chimes", too. |
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alasdair
Aloha
Germany
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 06:05:37 AM
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I don't see many people doing it bar steel players but what's really great fun to perfect is palming entire chords as harmonics.
Once you've figured out where the harmonics lie (most common being)
* 12th fret: octave above open string
* 7th or 19th fret: Octave plus a perfect fifth above open string
* 5th or 24th fret: Two octaves above open string
* 4th, 9th, or 16th fret: two octaves plus four semitones above open string
then you can basically palm the harmonic with the pinky side of your picking hand (pinky & outside edge of your hand) and simultaneously pick/strum with the same hand (appropriately it's a kind of flowing-wavy motion)
The great thing is you can play them anywhere relative to the position of whichever chord you're playing.
alasdair
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 03:25:14 AM
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| Plenty folks "chime" chords--Led does it on "Radio Hula" and Uncle Ray Kane did it at times, too. |
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alasdair
Aloha
Germany
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 2:19:11 PM
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i'll have to go listen to radio hula again from memory i just recall
open strings been "chimed"
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