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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
 Posted - 08/23/2002 : 08:30:02 AM
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Say I've written eight songs recently, and all but a couple clock in at almost exactly three minutes. On one hand, I'm comfortable with the songs in general, but I'm wondering if they are a little on the, um, tiny size.
Maybe it's lack of effort, maybe it's my attention deficit disorder, maybe it's because I've always been a fan of the Ramones and thier motto "If you dont like this one, stick around a couple of minutes, maybe you'll like the next one." But when I hear something I wrote struggle to get to three minutes, I'm wondering if I'm shortchanging myself and the listener by not finding ways to extend it.
So far, my experimenting has yielded mixed results. Sometimes I can find a way to end it more gracefully with additions. More often than not it sounds like I'm stretching it and it sounds, well, stretched.
How long do you guys find that a song is a song, and not just a couple phrases with unfinished business shacking up together? Ferdinando Carulli wrote some terrific classical pieces under three minutes, but the style he used was typically faster tempo and more condusive to compact songs.
Or does it even matter?
-Greg
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cgriffin
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 10:09:46 AM
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Greg,
In my opinion, the only thing that matters is what's in your heart when you play your music. If there is love there, it's going to be felt by whoever is listening ;-)
The opposite scenario to Love would be pride. Not that we shouldn't be proud of our music and musicianship, but I've experienced during my 20 years as an amateur musician that I didn't really *become* a musician until my ego got out of the way and the music showed me what was hiding underneath. I think that's the goal we're all after, whether we consciously know it or not; and it's highly spiritual.
Best,
Chris
quote:
Or does it even matter?
-Greg
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Chris Griffin
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 12:29:58 PM
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JWN's response is on the money, so I'll just add my usual pedantic footnote--
Slack key is not unlike a number of folk traditions in that the basic unit seems short compared to the classic 32-bar Tin Pan Alley form (or the open-ended/endless rock-blues-jazz solo). American fiddle tunes and the celtic dance forms from which they're descended tend toward eight-bar ABAB formats, and at dance tempo, they seem pretty short. In their original contexts (that is, at dances), the form is just repeated until the dance is over. In some traditions and settings, two or three tunes are strung together to form sets. This is very common in, say, Northumbrian dance-band and Irish concert-band practice--in the former, the tempo stays the same, while in the latter there is often a strong contrast from tune to tune. The slack key medleys of Gabby or Ray Kane seem to follow dance-band practice. (Can anyone think of a medley with contrasting sections?)
The other technique for extending an instrumental tune is, of course, to develop variations--"Punahele" comes to mind. The challenge there, of course, is to one's technique and inventiveness
In addition (to reprise a recent topic), most slack key tunes are associated with songs, and the lyrics can take you way past the three-minute mark, especially when you consider how many Hawaiian songs are open-ended or are often sung in truncated versions. Another reason to work on our Hawaiian singing chops.
Apologies if this all this seems perfectly obvious to everyone, but sometimes a query or comments fires up the long-dormant teaching circuits and I get the urge to organize and blurt out my understanding of a topic. Chalk it up to the fact that I'm in the middle of writing the slack key book and all kinds of stuff is whirling through my head, demanding that it get articulated.
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 12:34:36 PM
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Or does it even matter?
-Greg
Aloha e Greg,
Pololei no ho'i 'o Chris them: it doesn't matter. Quality, not quantity. And as you point out, there is a lot of precedent for great three-minute pieces. So also in the world of slack-key.
A piece is kind of an idea. A good idea is a good idea, and doesn't need padding and puffing. I've heard that with painting, the trick is to know when to stop.
Another other thing you might consider is that the longer song you seek just may not be ready to come out of you yet. E ho'omanawanui - be patient. Love and respect the music: Aloha.
me ka 'oia'i'o,
Sarah
Edited by - Sarah on 08/24/2002 09:14:14 |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 12:55:26 PM
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Better to be short and leave them wishing for more than to be long and leave them wishing for less.
Craig
Edited by - cpatch on 08/23/2002 14:06:50 |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 3:30:47 PM
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From a less philosophical and more statistical viewpoint:
Punahele (Ray Kane):
12 songs from 2:40 to 5:36 (4 at or under 3:00, 3:48 avg)
Kani Ki Ho'alu (Ozzie Kotani):
14 songs from 2:07 to 5:46 (8 at or under 3:00, 3:25 avg)
Led Live-Solo (Ledward Kaapana):
15 songs from 1:20 to 4:59 (5 at or under 3:00, 3:17 avg)
The History of Slack Key Guitar (Various Artists):
20 songs from 2:14 to 3:11 (18 at or under 3:00, 2:45 avg)
And the clincher:
Waimea Cowboy (Sonny Chillingworth):
11 songs from 1:18 to 3:56 (9 at or under 3:00, 6 at or under 2:00, 2:19 avg)
Craig
Edited by - cpatch on 08/23/2002 15:34:06 |
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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 4:47:47 PM
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quote:
And the clincher:
Waimea Cowboy (Sonny Chillingworth):
11 songs from 1:18 to 3:56 (9 at or under 3:00, 6 at or under 2:00, 2:19 avg)
Phew! I guess I need to extend my library (and read my liner notes more often). I've been listening heavily to "Black Sand" and "Ka'ele's Mele" alot lately. "Black Sand" does have a lot of long songs... "Mele" is chock full of medley's, which made them appear longer.
Thanks for all the replies. Y'all make some good points, and even better, a lot of sense. It was something that I thought maybe I knew the answer to, but until I discovered this site, had no one to really ask about it. TaroPatch.net rulez!
I'm standing tall now feeling more confident about my ability to perform. (my songs, that is... geez you people have dirty minds!)
Mahalo~!
- Greg |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 4:57:04 PM
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quote:
TaroPatch.net rulez!
Thank you for the compliment, but really - you all rule. Thanks for posting and moreover posting good, interesting stuff to read.
Mahalo nui loa,
Andy |
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