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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2005 : 05:47:59 AM
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I am curious. If I transcribe a song by by ear off of any CD...is the transcription free of copyright restrictions, unless of course, I copyright it? Or does the recording musician own the transcription?? I am assuming I did a perfect job of transcription.
If copyrights do not extend to these types of transcriptions, can they then be posted on this website?
Mike
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Aloha, Mike |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 06:46:32 AM
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Fran--You don't mean that the mere act of writing down one's own transcription of a copyrighted piece requires payment, do you? I'd think that a transcription made for personal use would come under "fair use." (I realize that the corporations are trying to kill it, but it ain't dead yet.) If one were to perform the transcription in public, then performance licensing applies, but that's the venue's problem. It's *distribution* of a transcription that triggers the various requirements for permission or payment or whatever. Or am I misconstruing your response?
Mike--If my understanding of the issues is correct, then any distribution or publication of a transcription of a copyrighted piece (which would be, I think, a "derivative work") requires the permission of the copyright owner. So posting a tab of a copyrighted tune without permission is not OK.
I suspect that Peter Medeiros can set us all straight on this, if he has the time and patience.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 08/22/2005 06:51:15 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 06:58:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Russell Letson
Mike--If my understanding of the issues is correct, then any distribution or publication of a transcription of a copyrighted piece (which would be, I think, a "derivative work") requires the permission of the copyright owner. So posting a tab of a copyrighted tune without permission is not OK.
This is my understanding too.
Posting transcriptions on TaroPatch is not permitted unless it's your own composition or your own arrangement of a public domain piece. If in doubt, ask Andy. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 08/22/2005 07:01:03 AM |
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slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 10:01:40 AM
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OK...so that would imply, for example, Mark Hansen has to pay royalties to Ray Kane and Led and so on for the tabs he wrote down for his music book...correct? (of course, there could have been other arrangements, just in general)
So what are my responsibilities if I play a CR song in public and recieve money for doing it? Has the fact that I bought the CD (to learn by ear) or the Tab covered me? What if I learned it off that Anglefire website (Led's Tabs)? How does that poster get around CR issues?
Mike
OK, I missed the part about "performance licensing". You said that was the venue's responsibility. So, a bar , or resteraunt, etc. buys some kind of general license? And that covers them for everything? |
Aloha, Mike |
Edited by - slackkeymike on 08/22/2005 10:10:26 AM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 10:36:05 AM
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Russell, I was trying to say that one would owe royalties if one distributed one's derived work in the form of a transcription. I suspect that by the letter of the law one would owe royalties on that first personal transcription, but I can't imagine it would never become an issue. The definition of fair use is quite specific and limited (even more so lately, as you pointed out) and I don't see any reason why my transcription of your composition/performance would fall into fair use.
Mike, we've discussed this a bit before, but there are three common (and many less common) situations to address:
1. You play a copyrighted, published piece in a cafe or bar. The owner of the venue is liable for paying fees to a performance rights organization (BMI, ASCAP, et al) who then distributes the monies to publishing companies. You as the performer have no liability.
2. You create and distribute (either by selling or giving away) a CD with a copyrighted work. You are responsible for paying mechanical royalties for that work, at a statuatory rate of $.08 per copy. The payment is usually due to the publishing company, and conventionally licenses are purchased for 500, 1000, or more copies. You CANNOT BE DENIED a mechanical license for a published work. Failure to obtain a mechanical license makes you liable for statuatory damages (no proof of harm required) in the range of several hundred dollers PER COPY.
3. You use a work or portion of a work in a movie or TV show or commercial, any visual medium. You are required to pay a sychronization royalty. As I understand it, there is no statuatory rate for synchronization, nor is the license compulsory like the mechanical license.
If you go to Google and search for music royalties or music publishing or copyright you'll find lots of information. Naturally you should consult a professional for any serious outlays. Here's one link that gives an overview:
http://www.musicjournal.org/01publishingresource.html
It's easy to dismiss these issues as "just a bunch of legalities" but intellectual property is a concept that grows more important every day, and if you're a performer you should educate yourself on the subject. I always try to think of my use of people's compositions in terms of how I would like my own works treated. It's another case of the golden rule providing a good rule of thumb.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 11:36:58 AM
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So where would you begin your search for permission to use a copyrighted work? The publisher? The record company? The artist? The internet? Do you think that with all these copyright legalities it would be best to hire a lawyer rather than do it yourself?
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 12:18:13 PM
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The first place to search is the Harry Fox Agency.
http://www.songfile.com/
Unfortunately, a lot of the material we're interested in is not listed with HFA. So you might try to contact the artist directly. Or their publishing company if you know it.
Another approach is to hire a specialist, not a lawyer but someone who will do the research, make the contacts, and generally do the work of getting license clearance. One person I've run across who offers to do this for Hawaiian music is Eric Lagrimas, Abe's brother. He offered his services to do rights clearance research in a post on the Flea Market Music web site. His email is eric @ akamaibraincollective.com .
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 12:45:19 PM
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| Thanks Fran, just what I needed. I'll check Eric out. I trust anyone with that name. Alohas |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 1:01:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by slackkeymike
What if I learned it off that Anglefire website (Led's Tabs)? How does that poster get around CR issues?
By ignoring them. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 08/22/2005 1:01:55 PM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 1:51:22 PM
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Hello,
Answering this one may require more brain cells than I have available today, but I'll think about it and respond soon. Craig, I met Steve Webb and his family at Waihe'e while jamming with with Kevin, Duke, Sheldon, Jerry and whole bunch of others whose names I can't remember. We had lot of fun and played some great chicken skin music. The circle was unbroken.
Peter M. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 05:15:16 AM
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| This is pretty confusing. I'm working on a Slack-key version of a tune recorded by Traffic, written by Dave Mason. I'm never going to find Dave Mason, so I've looked at the mechanical license issue. If I play this at fund raisers and open mic sessions, am I required to get a license or permission? How about the Taro Patch CD? |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 06:02:54 AM
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Chunk--Who pays whom is dictated by the situation and who holds the various kinds of rights. Recordings require a "mechanical license" (which usually comes through the Harry Fox Agency, which acts for the rights-holder). (This is called "a mandatory license" because the rights-holder cannot deny it--you pays your money and makes your record.) Print reproduction requires permission from (and generally payment to) the entity that holds publication rights. Performance (to finally get to your particular situation) requires paying someone--almost always one of three agencies, ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC--for that right--but the individual performer does not have to worry about this, since venues are the ones who get blanket licenses that cover all of an agency's clients' properties.
So public performance of your arrangement of a Dave Mason tune is paid for by the venue (and if ASCAP/BMI catches them offering music without a license, they'll go after them), but if you wanted to publish your derivative work (that is, a slack key arrangement of the tune in an Acoustic Guitar magazine workshop feature), you or AG would seek out Mason's publisher (probably via a search of ASCAP and BMI websites), secure permission, and pay the fee. And if I understand the law correctly, your arrangement would be copyrightable as a derivative work, and someone would have to pay you (probably with a chunk going to Mason's publisher) for permission to reprint it.
Singer-songwriter-guitarist Harvey Reid, who has been dealing with the complexities of copyright and licensing for quite a while, has posted some interesting pieces on his website--here's one:
www.woodpecker.com/writing/essays/royalty-politics.html
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 06:40:59 AM
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All good questions put forth by everyone. Good answers too.
As the complexity of this issue is evident once again, let me just reiterate the Taropatch.net policy which is posted in the FAQ.quote:
Can I share music and/or tabs here? Does Taropatch.net have a policy on copyrighted materials?
Taropatch.net does not allow its members to broadcast offers or requests for illegally copied materials to its community. Although this site supports the perpetuation of slack key guitar and `ukulele traditions in many ways, Taropatch.net must protect itself from the potential legal problems associated with copyright infringement of published materials. We believe there is too much good here to risk losing over intellectual property issues. Moreover, it is important to respect the works of artists and teachers so that they may come and share in the aloha and information exchange here too.
Original works by Taropatch.net members, works in public domain, and/or those used with the necessary written permissions of the original artist/publishers may be posted. All others may not be posted. Thank you for complying with this policy and making this website a friendly, informative and interesting resource.
When in doubt, please do not post your tabs. I try to keep it simple since I am neither a lawyer... nor do I play one on TV. |
Andy |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 07:11:30 AM
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One other thing to note here is not to assume that just because it's slack key (or Hawaiian music in general) that the rules about sharing or the artists' desire to protect their work are any different than any other kind of music. For example I recently asked George Kahumoku for permission to use some of his music as background for a podcast show (with full credit and links to his site) and was turned down. Respect each artist.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
Craig, I met Steve Webb and his family at Waihe'e while jamming with with Kevin, Duke, Sheldon, Jerry and whole bunch of others whose names I can't remember. We had lot of fun and played some great chicken skin music.
Cool! He said he had a great time and has some great photos...I'll post them as soon as I get them. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 08/23/2005 07:18:46 AM |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 08:38:26 AM
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Russell,
Thanks. I get it. |
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