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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2005 : 05:38:03 AM
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A good friend of mine attended a workshop recently and was encouraged to regularly record his playing as part of his practice routine. I think the idea is that you can hear a lot more while your not playing the instrument (timing, dynamics, etc.) This advice came from some world class fingerstyle acoustic players.
1) Anyone in Taropatch.net land doing this?
And as a follow up to my latest recording for the Taropatch.net 2005 CD, I'm fishing for advice on recording equipment. I know this has come up more than several times. Anyway, why not bring it up again? So here I am in the gear forum...
2) Digidesign M-box - commments, pros/cons, alternatives, ??? Seems like a nice piece of equipment and you get excellent software... making it a good bang for the buck.
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Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 06:17:46 AM
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If you are going to equip yourself with recording capability,
and especially if you are going to go "direct to Hard Disk",
I would strongly reccommend that you get an interface with
MORE THAN TWO channels. If you want JUST a practice recording
and you never want to sing, then two are OK. But if you want
to produce a semi-professional sounding recording with clear
vocals and a big fat guitar sound, then you need 3 to 4
channels:(2 to 3 for guitar and 1 for voice). Of course, if
you overdub parts, you can get away with fewer channels.
Also, in terms of hardware, you should buy something that will
work with several different studio software tools and not just
one. Read the thread(s) where Reid was getting educated on these
things. Also check the user sites were such things are discussed,
not just the manufacturer sponsored sites.
Here are a few independent reviews:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/88093/0#msg_88093
http://www.sonicstate.com/digital/comments.cfm?modelID=1818
http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php/threadid/25298/goto/nextoldest
http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/22920
I have been looking for multichannel USB 2.0 or FIREWIRE interfaces
for my LapTop computer so I can take them out to George's camp.
I can post a few models here shortly.
quote:
1) Anyone in Taropatch.net land doing this?
I record our rehearsal sessions (Na La'au Ki'ekie) when we are
getting close to a performace event, but I just do it with the
mini-disc so we can play it back for critical review.
I will be hooking up some multi-channel capability soon so that
if we get any good rehearsal cuts I can finalize to something
that sounds decent. I need to buy a 50 foot snake to allow this,
(or that multichannel interface I spoke of).
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/10/2005 08:18:15 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 06:47:35 AM
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Lawrence is right - I got (sorta) educated - and after some expensive missteps, and now we have a setup that looks something like his (minus a lot of really good mics and a few other toys).
We, too, started out with limited aims, but had expectation inflation. We thought that, since we were spending what was for us a considerable amount of money, we ought to get a lot of uses out of that money.
The MBox looks like it is roughly equivalent to the Echo Gina3G that I started out with (the current MBox is the MBox 2 and Sweetwater and Sam Ash are selling it for about $450) except that it has a USB (better be USB 2) connector, and, actually, slightly fewer I/O options . That doesn't look like such a swell $$ deal to me, even with the bundled Protools LE - and I am not sure how complete the LE effects plug-in suite is. You can get a Layla3G for that or less. (BTW the Echo products come bundled with Mackie Traktion, but I never have used it because I like Audition so much.)
So, to repeat Lawrence once again: be sure of what you want to accomplish with it.
Oh, one other thing - the USB connection. On the one hand, it is convenient because you can use it to connect to a laptop. On the other hand, there are connectivity wars that are changing the landscape rapidly - USB 2 itself is a sign of that. There is the standard PCI bus interface, Firewire, and others coming down the pike. How long will you have your current computer setup? I bet on PCI bus for longevity, and I may be wrong, too.
Reid |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 07:57:48 AM
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Thanks guys. Appreciate the comments and links. If anyone else has comments, please don't be shy.
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
I have been looking for multichannel USB 2.0 or FIREWIRE interfaces for my LapTop computer so I can take them out to George's camp. I can post a few models here shortly.
Please keep us all updated. Would love to hear about it. |
Andy |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 09:37:05 AM
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Well, geez, yeah....a fifty foot snake!?!?!? I think I'll stay in Alaska...No snakes at all!
I think recording pracctice seesions is a good idea. The few times i have done it, my practicing is better. You sort of put more pressure on yourself do do well. I got away from it when using a cassette deck because it ate up tapes (=money) but it would be really easy now with garageband. Guess i should go back to that format. I know that i rarely get through a piece in practice withot a number of mistakes, yet when i recorded for the upcoming TP CD, no more than 2 takes were needed for either song.
Give it a try Andy, and see if you get similar results. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 12:19:25 PM
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Andy,
I've been recording practice for well over a year. Extremely helpful.
I first started just the songs for last year's SF Aloha Festival. Now I record all my stuff, typically once or twice. The most important thing it shows me is how my timing is going. I also use it to get a better sense of phrasing and to listen to the overall arrangement. One of the best "self-help" tools I have.
I'm now working on 2 guitar arrangements, so recording is a must.
I like to keep it very simple. I use a Fostex MR8. I can plug right in, or go through a DI box. It has a couple of mic emulations and some special effects, but the biggest thing is ease of use. Once I'm done recording, a couple of short steps and it converts the song to a WAV file which I USB into my computer. Tweak it on Cool Edit Pro 2 and burn to disk. Acceptable quality sound. Very simple. Can't remember exatly, but I think it was around 300 after shopping around some.
In sum, recording can be easy and very very helpful |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 4:18:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Recording your practice is an excellent idea.
Buying gear is a headache.
Ah yes, I know! 
Appreciate the comments. Way to go! I know it's not your first book but congrats are still in order. I look forward to your book. And a 10% discount to boot.
I like my minidisc a whole lot, and it's probably ideal for recording practice sessions. But it'd be cool to get some better sounding recordings when I want to. If I'm going to spend the money, I'd like to spend wisely so that the it fits my needs and doesn't go obsolete in 2 weeks. 
Thanks everyone. And if anyone's got more thoughts, keep 'em coming. |
Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 6:36:13 PM
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quote:
But so are macs, and now I'm going to get flamed.....
WHAT THE HE*L DO YOU MEAN ?!
"M_A_C_S....A_R_E....B_E_T_T_E_R"??! 
Now... do you feel flamed enough??
(Now go away... or I shall taunt you a second time!!)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/11/2005 2:13:29 PM |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 04:13:47 AM
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Hi,
Ray Sowders made that comment on his first mini-lesson for beginners. And it's a very good one. I invested hugely for AMC and bought an iPod with iTalk. It works very nicely for folks not trying to put stuff on CDs. It's very eazy to drag onto your computer so you can carefully replay small sections. You can also plug it directiy into speakers and listen to yourself, what you're trying to learn, or any music you've loaded onto it - like CDs for halau to practice hula. It fits in your gig bag since it's smaller than a pack of cigarettes (yuck). I use it to record licks I'm trying to learn, complete with my kumu talking through with fingers, frets, etc and for me, it's the perfect addtion to my gear.
I should add that you can burn it to CDs, I've never gotten any static or feedback, at AMC in recording class, it also picked up the birds singing to our music and the rain on the overhead canvas. Kinda cool.
Now if I could just figure out how to get the recordings into Garage Band, it'd be totally cool!!
n
n |
Edited by - Pua Kai on 10/11/2005 04:24:19 AM |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 04:23:10 AM
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Dusty |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 09:37:57 AM
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Dusty,
You got the Spy Vs. Spy down pat! Where do yo get this stuff???
As i was about to say, just get a Mac and you won't have to be a gearhead.
Garageband ROcks! (once Jesse tells you how to run it!) |
Karl
Frozen North |
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HeartOTexas
Akahai
55 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 10:07:17 AM
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It is SO REFRESHING to be in a forum where Macs are so publicly honored for their superior artistic programming. When it comes to music, photo's, movies, DVD's - etc - Macs win hands down. If it weren't for Garageband and my iMac, I never could have had a 24-hour turn-around to submit my song to CD project.
Frank
(still recovering from a decade of PC abuse)
H.O.T. |
Frank
Deep in the Heart of Texas |
Edited by - HeartOTexas on 10/11/2005 10:08:05 AM |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 10:40:46 AM
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If recording your rehearsals is the only issue, then I think the iRiver mp3 player (which also records) is very good. I used two lapel-size mics hung on my music stand, put them into a 2-mono-to-1-stereo adapter, plugged the stereo end of the adapter into the iRiver thing and got some very nice, mp3 resolution recordings, which sound great when played back on the iRiver player. But not good for actual recording for reproduction - certainly not CD quality, and essentially no control over volume or tone. I can't recall who (on this forum) recommended the iRiver player/recorder, but I took the advice and never regretted it for practice rehearsal. And the price of these things has dropped well under $100 from Best Buy.
My recording for the CD project was made with some Shure mics, a Yamaha power mixer, a Mobile-Pre preamp/USB interface, and a laptop, with PowerTracks software. Not without some problems, and I sometimes felt that two tracks were not enough (as indicated above in this thread), but serviceable, and not too much money (I had the ocmputer already). Now I'd move up to a stereo power mixer, I think, and maybe a dedicated recording setup. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 11:30:02 AM
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Hi Leonard, I was the one who recommended the iRiver. If you set the recording quality to 44KHz sampling rate, 320Mbps compression you'll get CD quality with a decent mic. I've used the iRiver with everything from a $20 headset mic to a $300 condenser (running through a mixer). In fact, three tracks on the TaroPatch CD this year (two from Rik and one from Nancy) were recorded on my iRiver using an audio-technica AT4040 (and a Marshall MXL-990 on Nancy since she sings on hers) and a Mackie 1202-VLZ PRO mixer on location then mixed at home on my iMac.
The weak point of the iRiver soundwise is the noise floor of the internal preamp. You need to use high-sensitivity mics or an external preamp coming in at line level to get the best recording quality. And I assume you realize that you have full control over the recording level prior to recording...it's only while recording that you can't adjust it. You can also monitor your levels through your headphones so it's just a matter of listening for distortion when setting your levels and then backing off enough to make sure you have enough headroom. The only time I've had a problem when using this technique is when I haven't been able to accurately check the levels ahead of time. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2005 : 7:00:20 PM
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| Recording rehearsals is a great idea. Who knows what music you may capture. With all the editing ability of todays computers and software you may even be able to create a patchwork masterpiece. My problem was playing with the soundclick which is a must for perfecting digital recording. The years of practicing and jamming without a metronome came back to haunt me in the studio where I had problems substaining a constant beat. It was weird how I found it easier to watch and follow the beat of this pulsating light on one of the mixers instead of listening to the soundclick. Lucky for me it worked and today I practice with a electric metronome that has a flashing light. I'm happy to say my beat keeping has improved. |
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