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ManaKapu
Aloha
USA
20 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2002 : 10:01:27 AM
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If anyone is interested in a zip file with 8 Led Kaapana songs in tab email me! I was going to post the link where I found it but I can't remember it  Anyway, I would be happy to send if interested, they use the tabledit program which is a free download.
Aloha - Danno
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2002 : 12:31:05 PM
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I found the site, downloaded the TEF files, and posted the link here--but then I had a look at the files, and they seem to be pretty precise transcriptions of Led's performances. I recall that there has been some concern in the past about posting or linking to materials that might require permissions, so I thought it might be a good idea to err on the side of caution, and I've edited the link out.
This seems to be one of those situations that falls between legal requirements and good manners. I can't find the relevant discussion on the forum (I'm a bit hurried), so I'm asking for guidance on this. Maybe there ought to be an explicit guideline in the FAQ? (Or am I being more than usually dense and missing something that's already clearly stated somewhere?)
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 09/21/2002 1:15:09 PM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 01:17:18 AM
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Russell - thanks for removing the link.
The policy here has not yet been spelled out clearly. We've had some discussion on occassion. The unofficial policy came from one of Mark Nelson's posts:quote:
I work at a bunch of seminars and camps around the country – the policy is simply that no one can pass out TAB that they don't have the rights to. How do you secure the rights? Either you write the song, you personally arrange a song in the public domain or you get written permission from the copyright holder. Period.
Fair use doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Even for educational institutions.
The bottom line? If you have any doubts at all about whether or not to post TAB, or MP3s, or anything else on the 'net, don't.
I've seen too many well-meaning websites go down over this issue. If we start publishing TAB by posting it – or even posting that we will send it as an e-mail attachment, we run that risk.
It is a great idea to include the policy regarding tablature in the FAQ. Essentially if you're not sure about the rights to tab, please do not post it or use this site as a method for distributing it. Sharing among fellow students is an important theme here. Nevertheless, we would not want to do so at the expense of someone's, in this case Led Kaapana's, hard work. |
Andy |
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ManaKapu
Aloha
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 7:19:45 PM
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| Disregard previous post. No files available here. Just trying to share some learning tools. It turned into a bigger deal than I intended. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 10:03:50 PM
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Not really a big deal, Danno--just an issue that comes up whenever tune (or tab or arrangement) swapping meets the Web. This forum is evolving one way of coping with some difficult and by no means clear-cut problems having to do with legal rights, moral rights, and giving respect to creators. No need to for any discomfort on your part. I'd say we're all just trying to figure out how to do the right thing and get along together (to string together a couple of useful cliches).
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 10:42:57 PM
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Absolutely, not a big deal Danno. Unfortunately, the sharing of tabs is a difficult issue.
My personal feeling is that most Hawaiian artists are all for sharing and often put forth the same aloha that they once received when they were learning. It is simply the threat of some legal problem that I want to avoid. It is unfortunate that our society is so litigious these days. |
Andy |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2002 : 01:18:47 AM
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Why not give Led a call and ask him if it OK.
Raymond |
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ManaKapu
Aloha
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2002 : 09:07:45 AM
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Actually, I'm going to see Led live hear in Michigan in a few weeks, maybe I'll ask him!
Anyway, no problem Andy, I understand completely. I wasn't even thinking about it when I posted. Thanks to you and Russell for the insight.
Aloha
Danno |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:24:27 PM
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Here's my two cents on copyright: At the risk of offending everyone on this discussion, I think we should have a legal discussion about what copyright infringement is and is not. While I respect the creator of works of art (I'm a photographer) and the virtuosity of a musician, sharing lyrics, tabs or chords is not necessarily copyright infringement.
Two of the legal tests of infringement is whether the derived work is used for profit, and whether the use of the work decreases the commercial value of of the original work. Downloading music from sharing sites certainly devalues the original work of a recording artist, but sharing chords/words/tabs for free, doesn't devalue the music unless there is a book or sheet music being sold that competes with it. And kanikapila-style playing for pleasure does not involve any profit, nor does it devalue the original work, until we step on stage and charge for the performance. In fact, the poor quality of us backyard strummers could only increase the desire for great music. On this forum, we often talk about listening to Gabby albums to hear how "Hi'ilawe" is supposed to sound. And if we can't pass along that knowledge/skill to another trying to learn the music, we look like a bunch of pinky-extended museum curators who refuse to let anyone in our little clubhouse to see the wonders of Hawaiian music unless they can afford the ticket price (CDs, concerts, trips to the islands, lessons). We can sit around and gleefully debate the sound our Larivee and Taylor guitars, but what about guys who can barely afford a $50 pawn shop guitar, much less Keola's online lessons or specially-made videos.
I say that everyone should buy the albums, books and lessons made available by our elders, the kumu mele of our style of music. It's the right thing to do and we know that Hawaiian music never made anyone rich except Don Ho. But don't squelch the aloha spirit of sharing because of nebulous warnings about legal infringement.
Any comments? |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2002 : 02:00:16 AM
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I have mixed reaction. What you write sounds intuitively true. I know "in person" I will share things I worked out with someone who I'm teaching or just playing with. That includes my versions of songs written by others. I have a lot of arrangements done by Ozzie Kotani, and I don't share those without Ozzie's permission and then they are clearly identified as Ozzie's work. If something is available commercially, I don't copy it and give it to others. (Actually what I do is copy it but make sure I get a check for the approximate cost of the piece made out to the author and I send it to him/her. I do this with out of print books.) I don't have a problem sharing the material in a person to person context.
It's when it comes to the internet that I get very hesitant, mainly because there are suite-happy people out there that I am afraid of running into. I don't even put my arrangements of others' songs on the internet. Only my own original material. Then I read discussions here and on others sites with legal stuff that confuses me further. The copyright/patent lawyer I spoke to said that if I am making a small number of copies for non-commercial use, as mentioned above, I could defend it as "fair use." The problem with the internet is that you don't know how many copies get made of something. My compromise, as with the Red Book CD I offered, is to have people write me directly so I can keep it to a limited number of copies in a more personal context. The lawyer I spoke to said that I could defend this practice under "fair use" if I had to.
The bottom line for me, I guess, is: get the author/composer's permission to post on the internet and things are ok. (Most Hawaii'an musicians are easy enough to get to. Every one I've asked, with one exception, has given me permission to use their songs on gigs I get paid to play.) Until I hear from a lawyer specializing in this field with a "quotable" opinion, I'm not going to post other's work, or my arrangements/TABS of other's work on the internet. It's not because I'm trying to be elitist. It's because I don't want to have to go trough a lawsuite.
Raymond
San Jose, CA |
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