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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2005 : 4:17:13 PM
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I figured this would work itself into a discussion on recording gear, so I placed my comments here.
First of all let me state that ALL of the recordings on the Taropatch CD 2006 are outstanding. This is the perfect summation of what I have been talking to all of you about for the past couple years: GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT. There is no GARBAGE IN on this set and therefore, there is no bad recording. It’s the musician and his or her soul, not the guitar, not the sound card, not the mic, not the blah blah blah blah blah!!!
There have been many threads on this forum about what to buy to record with. Well, read the booklet that hapakid so generously put together, and what people used to record with. You will see everything from a tape deck to ProTools. The common denominator is everyone played from the heart.
I’d like to make some specific comments about recordings that I particularly liked from an Audio Engineer’s point of view about recording “on-the-cheap”. If I was to give an award to the best recording on the CD set, based on content, raw energy and basic equipment it would be to Ross Randrup (rossasaurus) for his recordings of Na Leo Nahanane at the Trinity Episcopal Church in San Francisco using only a Sony Mini-disc and Sony Stereo mic. How many times has that piece of equipment been maligned on this forum? Then there’s Don Narup (ianui) recording into a Tascam Pocketstudio 5 for gosh sakes and Leonard Rumery (Leonard) or Jean Smith (neeej) or Doug Wong (PearlCityBoy) into an iRiver MP3 player. Talk about lossy compression! Did it make a difference? NO! And what about Jerry Sullivan (jsulle) or Terry Beckhelm (Chunky Monkey) who just plugged a mic into their computers. Then there's everything in between. Each performance captured its own essence.
With so much esoteric nonsense that we tend to put out here, I suggest that we just listen to the CD, enjoy it for what it is and continue to express our Aloha through our playing, not our soundcard. I’m in awe and humbled by the music that has been archived on this CD set. I will enjoy it for years to come. Thanks to all who participated at any level.
Mahalo nui loa,
Dave
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Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 12/16/2005 06:26:26 AM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 07:19:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by `Ilio Nui
The common denominator is everyone played from the heart.
So true, Dave. But where do I get one and what brand should a buy?  Nah, nah, just kidding.
On the other hand, I've found that listening to everyone's tracks has inspired me to learn more about recording. I don't want to go overboard, but I admittedly do not know much the process and did not focus much time on it. Since receiving the CD, I've been reading about A/D convertors, soundcards, mics, etc. While I agree that ultimately, it's the song and the player - my desire to learn a little about mics and mic placement should be a good thing.
I can honestly say that I am enjoying every single track on the CDs. It is so much fun listen and then look up in the liner notes to see who playing. Familiar names - "Hey, I know her." New names - "Hey, I don't know him, nice playing... who is that guy? Need to go look up a profile."  |
Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 08:19:47 AM
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quote:
So true, Dave. But where do I get one and what brand should a buy? Nah, nah, just kidding.
Well, there is this Wizard who will sell you one in exchange for getting rid of the Wicked Witch of the West.
(But, don't look behind the curtain)
I agree with Dave's overall supposition, equipment does not matter as much as the way it is used. I know lots of folks who can make mediocre music on $5000+ guitars and a few folks who can make outstanding magical music even on $250 guitars. Same, but less important, is the recording equipment. However, it is fun discussing this stuff! You just need to keep the perspective.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/16/2005 09:22:57 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 08:48:08 AM
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| Add Rik Nieve's and Aunty Nancy's tracks to the list of those that were recorded onto an iRiver (the $125 iFP-795), albeit using an external mic and preamp. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 12/16/2005 08:50:28 AM |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 09:27:28 AM
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Craig, Thanks. I certainly didn't mean to leave them, or anybody, out. In their bios it didn't really spell out the recording media. Once again, there you go. Both of those performances were very heartfelt. I am so very proud of Aunty Nancy. That performance fills me with Aloha. Thanks for the time you took to make those recordings.
Dave |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 11:42:36 AM
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quote:
All right then--name names. (You're such a tease!)]
That's easy... In the first category there is myself, in the second category there is Led.
quote:
Okay. There's the contest--let's see who can explain this without all those gawd-awful numbers and specs and studies and techie jargon.
Well, do you want us to be silly?, or do you want real answers?!
The technical side of sound recording is just that... technical.
There is no avoiding understanding at least some of the numbers if you want reliable repeatable results (this is called Science, and a lot of folks these days don't understand what Science is... just like in the dark ages... that's why they call them the dark ages!... and it is getting worse). (or is that why they call them the blues... I dunno, ask Elton)
Warmth: Are you a wine afficanado?? Well warmth is like "lingering citrus nose". I.E. a nebulous term! It is generally used to describe an emphasis in the lower midrange or upper bass (depending upon the instrument) and also to describe the "sweet" kind of distortion (also known as even-order distortion - verging on technical) that vaccuum tubes provide. If you have a good clean flat (a technical term) preamp, you can add tube style distortion after the fact, but once added it would be very hard to remove. But the very best way to add warmth to your sound is to carefully invoke rapid oxidation of the instrument and microphone while recording. Lighter fluid usually helps. You may need to apply judicious quantities of the highly dangerous di-hydrogen oxide to control the overall effect (but that may be getting too technical), and besides, you should not use di-hydrogen oxide without a license!
Ilio Nui has already posted "a beginners guide" to recording and it is better to read that than to re-hash everything else again.
Read these threads:
http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2558&SearchTerms=recording
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2005/06/29/portable1.html
HEY DAVE - where did you put your thread on recording basics, I remember you have a least several paragraphs on preamps!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/16/2005 4:40:41 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 11:44:40 AM
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John,
I'll take a stab as an ignoramus.
What does it do?
What you said: "kicking up the signal to be sent to the amp", PLUS, it adds its own peculiar changes to certain frequencies, as all electronic components do.
Why are some "tube" and some not?
You remember those little blown glass thingies, with some wires sticking out, in old radios and TV's? Those are tubes ("valves" in the UK, which describes what they do better than "tubes", since they act as valves for the flow of electricity). "Tube" devices use tubes for amplification rather than transistors (tiny silicon thingies, that also act as valves).
What does "it adds warmth" mean?
The preamp screws up certain frequencies (usually low ones and some of their harmonics - uh, oh...too techie to say "harmonic"?) in a way that some people like. Mostly done by "tube" preamps. Mostly liked by guys with Golden Ears (which I do not have).
Does it need to be matched to anything?
Not by you; that's the job of the manufacturer, as long as you bought a preamp that has the "right name". A mic preamp is somewhat different from a preamp you buy for the stereo in your living room.
Is a preamp necessary?
For most mics: yeah. For many guitar pickups: yeah.
OK?
(Now I will be beaten up by our friends. :-)
...Reid |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 2:51:37 PM
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Lawerence, after a bit of time in our Search engine I found my original Recording Techniques discussion as follows http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2009 I really didn't go into what a preamp was, only that you use one. Your and Reid's description above is nice and basic.
John, I went back and reread my "Techniques" paper and didn't quite understand your three mics and one Pre-amp comment. If I stated it that way, I did not mean to. Each and every mic I use runs through a Pre-amp. That could be anything from a high end PRE like my Grace 201, to a channel in my Mackie Mixer, to a small guitar DI box; everything is PREed.
Another comment about "Warmth". You probably prefer to listen to a CD through a nice home stereo unit than a boombox. The home stereo is much warmer (for the reasons suggested by Lawerence)
Aloha kakou,
Dave |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 4:26:33 PM
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quote:
The home stereo is much warmer (for the reasons suggested by Lawrence)
Yes- especially if there is a nice fireplace nearby...
..but you may want to skip the rapid oxidation step during recording, unless you have very good homeowners insurance.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/16/2005 4:28:24 PM |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:41:06 PM
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You Guys!!!! |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 12:55:29 AM
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Hi you guys -
I'm glad Craig told you what he did/used for my recording. I thought when he forwarded it to Jessie he would include that info - I never intended for the liner notes to include the silly summary of that evening that I sent to him. I never started out to record or perform, and still just want to play on my back porch, but now I've gotten into playing with my guitar plugged in, singing into a mic all for the first time, in front of 70 folks tonight so it's another first. I'm hoping there are buckets of water 'cuz I just might go down in flames, but if not, it'll be amazing to me, if not the rest of the folks. 'Ikaika's given me permission to use Kalo Man and post it here on Taropatch, by the way. It's a good folk song so maybe it'll catch on one of these days.
What an adventure!!
n |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 2:39:53 PM
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Hey sistah Nancy, I liked the way you described Cpatch's recording rig, so I left it in. I really didn't want you to talk technical language about recording, just simple stuff. Everyone's recordings had some charm to it despite the simple recording methods, or in spite of fancy recording gear.
Jesse Tinsley
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2005 : 08:55:32 AM
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Hey, all -
Speaking of mic preamps & general recording gear: I'm selling off some surplus stuff I'm no longer using in my studio. I'm pretty much out of the "selling time" biz, hence the sale.
This list includes an almost-brand-new in-box Presonus MP20 2 channel mic pre.
I'll post to the For Sale area, 'natch.
Merry & Happy.
Mark |
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