| Author |
 Topic  |
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
 Posted - 12/26/2005 : 11:28:34 AM
|
I see these effects boxes, big ol' things...appear to do anything you want. I am interested, and I want to be able to experiment, model amplifiers, record backgrounds aginst which to play (memory boxes), etc. Be nice if I could find a highly reccomended device in one box. got any ideas?
Mike
|
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 3:23:00 PM
|
Hi Mike -
This is a cool topic, and one I hope more folks jump in on.
Before I can give you suggestions, I need to know a little more about what you're intended use is. Live? Recording? Practice? Inspiration? Annoying the cat?
Are you looking for a cheap stomp box-type effect, or a rack mount deal? Or an expensive stomp box?
Software/hardware combination that integrates w/ your computer (like the NI Guitar Rig I'm reviewing this month)?
Primarily acoustic guitar, or do you want one unit that will also let you peel the paint from the walls with yer tele?
Looping? Drum/Riddim machine ("Beat Box")? Multitrack recording? Backing trax?
Battery power? Desktop? Palmtop? USB/Firewire?
How do you plan on pluging in your guitar? Direct? Effects loop in the mixer? FX loop in yoir DI???
Sorry, I'm really not trying to confuse you. But there are a number of excellent choices for specific applications, and nothing that does everything well....
Oh, one more thing: How much programming are you willing to do?
BTW: I'm currently in the market for something to replace my beloved, but cumbersome, Yamaha DG Stomp V1. Killer sound, awful interface. So I'm also hoping for some good TP feedback.
(Insert ear-splitting squeal here...)
Catch you on the flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flop-flop-flop-flop-flop-flop-flop.........
Mark
|
Edited by - Mark on 12/28/2005 3:25:56 PM |
 |
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 04:55:57 AM
|
Mark,
I can narrow it down a bit. Acoustic application only. I have not bought back into the electric market as of yet, and really do not plan to for a while. I have a Taylor 810 with a bridge pickup, and a California Blonde amplifier (both of which I love).
I am a technical type, programming, scripting, etc is not an issue.
It will be used personally, and for recording. I would not mind playing live, but I do not have a forum around here for that (save open mic nights!)
Perhaps an "expensive" stomp device is correct, did not know rack deals existed.
Yes looping, and back trax, rythm is good too.
USB2 and internal power OK, external power is good too.
I do not really understand the "plugin directly" or FX in DI question.
Thanks Mark, hope this narrowed it a bit. BTW, do they make such a box with huge internal memory (or with a disk drive, or an external port to a disk drive) for direct recording, perhaps a patch to a computer for monitoring? Currently, for recording, I use my amps XLR port and downpatch to a 1/8" mono jack into the microphone port, and use Audacity to control levels, record, and shape signals (post processing). You can hear one or two of my attempts of this in the slack key forum (recent posts).
Mike
|
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 09:09:19 AM
|
Hi Mike -
quote:
I do not really understand the "plugin directly" or FX in DI question.
That's because I wasn't being clear, sorry.
By "plugin directly" I mean taking a 1/4 cable out from your guitar and plugging it into the instrument in on the device. Some DI's (like my SansAmp Acoustic DI) have effects loops, much like many amps; including, I think, your California Blond.
The really inexpensive little stomp boxes (and some expensive ones) need to see an intrument level signal, so they won't work all that well used in a FX loop. Some rack units want to see line level (usually -10, ask Lawrence to give you the particulars if you need 'em) so they don't like it if you run your guitar straight in.
That being said, it's looking like you want something that does FX, modeling, looping, recording & has a computer interface-- which really narrows the field, don't it?
As far as I know, you've basically got 3 or 4 choices. All are really geared for electric players, but you can dig inside & create acceptable accoustic sounds. (Hint: lose the distortion...)
Digitech GNX300
Line Six Guitar Port & TonePort
Native Intruments Guitar Rig 2
M-Audio Black Box
Of these, the GNX300& M-Audio deal are capable of stand-alone operation.
All 4 have USB interfaces for recording & bundled software. The Black Box & TonePort both have mic in's as well -- handy if you sing or want to add a mic'ed guitar to the Taylor's internal set-up.
quote:
I use my amps XLR port and downpatch to a 1/8" mono jack into the microphone port, and use Audacity to control levels, record, and shape signals (post processing).
Regardless of what you decide, you really do need to invest in some kind of interface. I'm assuming you mean the "mic input" on your computer, right? You probably have some level mismatching, for one thing. Also, computer mic ins are notoriously low fi. And, to top it off, Audacity is pretty much of a dog. (Sorry -- I have a copy and have used it a lot, mostly to covert wavs to mp3s and back as part of the MicroTrack Review I did. Can't say as I'm even remotely impressed with the software or it's effects...Nice price, tho'.)
Just about any interface you buy will be bundled with much better software.
I'd suggest starting your search with one of these four. Hit the websites, check out the user groups, you know the drill.
As I said, I've got the NI Guitar Rig in a box next to my computer right now, I'll be fireing it up over the next week or so for a review later this month. The others are listed for reviews later in the year -- which won't help yr current jones any.
Hope that helps!
cheers,
Mark
|
|
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 10:49:53 AM
|
Mark,
What do you do for a living? (queueing on the "review" stuff)
What interface asside from audacity? Or are you saying that the boxes come with some?
I am all ears on this one!! Thanks!!
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 2:39:34 PM
|
If you're going for quality and can afford it, you're much better off going for the modeling stuff in one box and the looping/back trax/rhythm/recording stuff in another (or several...makes the interface easier and looks much cooler onstage!). Then you can check out additional toys like:
Boss AD-8 Acoustic Guitar Processor
Yamaha Magicstomp Acoustic |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 12/29/2005 2:41:52 PM |
|
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 4:26:52 PM
|
Thanks craig...will check it out.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 07:30:29 AM
|
Stupid question time:
If I (or anybody) am not going to use effects for live performance, but only for recording, why would I want a hardware effects device when I can use a software plugin (or already built-in effect) that is previewable, modifiable and can be undone?
...Reid |
|
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 07:51:59 AM
|
Give an example...using what software? audacity, for example does it post processing. Also, i didn't say never...but I want to experiment. perhaps there is a sometime... :) Hey, I'm a hack, can't help myself.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 08:29:46 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Stupid question time:
If I (or anybody) am not going to use effects for live performance, but only for recording, why would I want a hardware effects device when I can use a software plugin (or already built-in effect) that is previewable, modifiable and can be undone?
Because you'll waste hours in front of the computer playing around with various parameters and effects trying to get it just right.  |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 12/30/2005 08:30:28 AM |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 09:18:54 AM
|
Mike, my question was just a question. I have read about folks using hardware devices even when they had mucho software. Mine is Audition 1.5, my digitizer is an Echo Layla3G and I also use a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer (but have never used any of the effects loops it has). So, if there was an advantage to doing so, I would think about spending more money for boxes :-)
Craig, I really had to laugh at your comment - it is so true. Terry and I, talking via email, agreed that the editing/post processing step in Audition was addictive. I really have to force myself to stop listening to previews of effects even after I know what they will do. Nevertheless, it is very neat to learn all the things you can do and, since I am just a relative beginner, I have lots to anticipate. But, I have never spent longer than 4 hours on one song (and that with 4 tracks). I have developed a few scripts to follow (for various scenarios) so that I can charge through all the basics and get to the really addictive stuff.
...Reid |
|
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 11:36:51 AM
|
Audition...thats nice stuff...expensive if I remember correctly. Is the digitizer used for recording (sorry, I know so little here). If so, what is the dynamic range in bits? is 12, 14, etc.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 12:07:09 PM
|
Mike,
AA 1.5 isn't really expensive given what it does (about $250-$300 MSRP, depending on where you get it). Besides, I got it on an educational discount which made it real cheap (about $140).
The Layla3G is 24 bit / 96 khz. I always record 24 bit/44.1khz (because Lawrence and many others made a good case that the extra frequency range was not really audible - rec.audio.pro guys laugh at the ever increasing frequency specs). But 96 khz *is* used, I am told, for DVD production (AA 1.5 can do that, too).
...Reid |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 2:44:36 PM
|
What do I do for a living? Beats the heck out of me...
OK, seriously. I used to be a studio dog, and I still maintain a small studio for my own stuff. I've written about desktop recording for years, for a bunch of different magazines. That means I get to break stuff a lot.
On to the topic(s):
quote:
If you're going for quality and can afford it, you're much better off going for the modeling stuff in one box and the looping/back trax/rhythm/recording stuff in another (or several...makes the interface easier and looks much cooler onstage!). Then you can check out additional toys like:
Boss AD-8 Acoustic Guitar Processor
Yamaha Magicstomp Acoustic
Right, on Craig. I'd responded more about an interface and software -- you ably pointed out that a couple of external devices would be good alternatives for the FX end of things.
BTW: The Magic Stomp is the successor to the DG Stomp I recently let go. If it is 50% as good, it's great.
Reid:
RE: Hardware vs software FX. The current crop of high end software FX are very good indeed. Are they up to the quality of rack effects? Depends on the rack effects, don't it? The low end rack stuff is about as cheezy as the bulk of the bundled plug-ins; the high end plug-ins are great. The high-end rack stuff is legendary, but do you really want to spend a few thou??
And you can do as much, or as little, tweaking as you like with software. Just as with hardware FX. Want a small room? Select a small room preset, same as a hardware box. One thing in favor of software: it's sure easier to adjust parameters on the computer monitor than twiddling knobs and staring at little bitty LCDs on gear in a sidecar rack mounted mounted six inches above the floor behind the assistant engineer's chair...
Back to Mike:
quote:
What interface asside from audacity? Or are you saying that the boxes come with some?
Audacity is software... but you know that, right? I only have it because it was bundled with the MicroTrack, and I wanted to write the review from the persoective of the non-techie. I really don't think it's good for much, sadly. If you use Windows, there are dozens of much better shareware and freeware choices.
Interfaces get sound into, and out of, your computer.
I said that many interfaces (what Lawrence and Reid call "digitisers") will come bundled with some kind of recording software. F'rinstance, buy an Mackie Onynx Firewire (I just did -- excellent!) & you get Tracktion (not bad, actually), buy a Presonus Inspire and you get Cuebase, etc, etc. The ones I mentioned -- the NI Guitar Rig, Line Six TonePort, etc -- are all packages complete with guitar-specific software and hardware, as well as USB interfaces to get audio in and out of your computer.
Not to blow my horn, but I'd really suggest you read "Getting Started in Computer Music," the book I just finished. It, or something similar, will go a long way to help you sort out all of this stuff.
Happy New Year!
Mark |
Edited by - Mark on 12/30/2005 2:49:00 PM |
|
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 3:23:19 PM
|
Send me a copy Mark, I'll pay you via paypal if that works or send a check if you cannot take paypal.
Mike |
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2006 : 11:06:51 AM
|
Hey Mike -
You can order the book from my website: http://www.Mark-o.com. There's a paypal link, just hit the "add to cart" button.
Or, alternately, use paypal to send $25 for the book & shipping. Be sure to give me a shipping address.
I think it will help you sort some of this stuff out. There's stuff about setting up mics for guitar, using FX, etc. Mostly it's an overview of all the ways computers interface with music.
cheers,
Mark
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
