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Sellars
Aloha
Netherlands
30 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2006 : 10:51:12 PM
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Hi all,
As you may have read in one of my previous posts, I am currently working on Ozzie's book. I'm studying on Ex 5 now. Ex6 is the last exercise in taropatch tuning. after that he introduces slack G (which isn't all that different from taro ofcourse) and C something.
Besides Ozzie's book I also have one by Keola beamer, and the tabledit files from led Kaapana. I am sort of at a choice now: Do I first do all of the exercises in taropatch tuning before I tackle another tuning, or do I go though the books in serial order?
I can see advantages with really trying to get one tuning down good, including all positions and a reasonable repertoire before turning to another tuning. On the other hand, I can imagine that being comfortable in several tunings construes learning these tunings early in your slack key development.
Any advice or ideas?
kind regards,
Roel
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I've always been crazy but that's kept me from going insane (W.J.)
Playing: Ukulele, Slack key guitar, Mandolin |
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Rlowenote
Akahai
84 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 03:56:50 AM
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I've been wondering something along the same line. I've tried a few tunings, but usually stick with taropatch tuning. Is there any order of "study" among the books/dvds recommended. I started with Mark Hanson's book, but when I got Ozzies' book, it was more basic and a better starting point in my opinion. When a song I like comes along or my brother recommends a song I'll try it. But that has me jumping from book to book.
Ralph |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 03:57:18 AM
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Roel,
That "C something" in Ozzie's book is Leonard's C. It differs from Taro Patch only in that the 6th string is dropped to C. Of course, most pieces played in that tuning are in C major. This means that the usual 3rds and 6ths that are so often used in Slack Key have somewhat different fingerings. Learning those expands your repertoire considerably AND aids you in learning the fretboard for those 3 very important and widely used tunings. - there was a reason Ozzie chose them to include in the book.
As for what you do next...that is up to you and your personal goals. Ask yourself what pieces you enjoy listening to and would please you to play. A tuning is a vehicle, a tool, to creat music and enjoyment. But, having said that, since the majority of Slack Key (a plurality, at least :-) uses those 3 tunings in Ozzie's book, your chances of discovering pieces you like that use those tunings are increased considerably.
From personal experience, your imaginings of being "comfortable in several tunings early in MY development" did not hold. Music is like language, if you don't speak/play it, you lose it. My brief forays into other tunings not based on Open G (like Atta's C), while very interesting, never stuck.
...Reid |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 05:18:04 AM
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| I heard Keola Beamer advise a group to bccome comfortable in one tuning first. About 85% of slack key is in taropatch G. Cyril said that once you understand "G", then it's easier to see the corelations to the other tunings. Also good to remember: All Mauna Loa tunings have a 6th in them, all Wahine tunings have a maj7th. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 07:29:49 AM
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My two cents,
Taropatch is very versatile, and you can play just about anything with it. But if you want to play a piece note-for-note from a recording, you'll probably have to use the original tuning of the song if it's not in Taropatch.
More importantly, the tuning depends on where you sing most songs. I like to sing high and use G most of the time.
Jesse Tinsley |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:08:27 AM
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My personal experience:
Ozzie told me that Sonny Chillingworth used to say something like, "Most anyone can play a couple of dozen songs, each in its own tuning, but it takes a Master to play any song in just one tuning." Well, I've followed Ozzie's advice - For the past 6 years I've just played TaroPatch. Sometimes this was a bit frustrating, but most of the time I'm very happy with the results. I've learned a lot about this tuning, have discovered some wonderful sounds, and continue to discover more. It is very versatile. Not every song will sound good in it, but the vast majority of what I've wanted to play has been possible and sounds good in TaroPatch. (As Jessie said, not note-for-note, but that has never been an issue for me. I'm more interested in figuring out how to play stuff "my way" than in playing someone else's songs note-for-note.) I don't sing, so that's not an issue for me. If I accompany someone, I can play every root chord, many "block chords," the minors being a bit of a problem, so that's not an issue.
I know I'm in the minority in holding back from playing other (tempting) tunings, but it has paid off for me. I'll probably continue to do so until I get tired of it, or unless there is an overriding reason to switch. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:10:40 AM
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| I find Jesse's information to hold true with me as well. I learned 3 songs from Keola's video in F Wahine. Since then i have figured out how to do all three in taropatch. The songs have a slightly different flavor in one tuning or the other, but you can use one tuning for all the songs if you wish. Well, Punahele might be a stretch. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 08:19:11 AM
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I heard this once from a Kumu Ki Ho'alu, "It is not how many tunings you know but how many songs in a tuning you can play." His gospel was, to truly appreciate the slack key style, you need to know the many aspects of playing that style in one tuning. Most people start with G TaroPatch.
With Ozzie's book you are training your fingers to move independently where your brain tells them to go with an alternating bass (your right thumb) and the melody line. Your left hand is learning chords AND individual note independence from the chord form. This mind/finger exercise is conducted in the form of fairly easy songs. Once you can do this easily and fluidly without THNIKING TOO HARD, you are ready to move to the nest steps in TaroPatch G.
BUT:
If you don't know the ins-and-outs on strings 4&6, 5&6, 3&5, 3&4, 4&6, and the power notes on 3&6 then stick with TaroPatch until you know them all.
If you can't play more than different five ways of the standard D7/G turnaround or don't know what it is, then stick with TaroPatch until you can.
If you can't play a song in the Key of G from a chord chart with the words, then stick with TaroPacth G until you can. You need to know where to play G, C, and D7 all the way up to the 12th fret.
Keoki and George Kahumoku have two different DVDs that cover these basics in different ways (for TaroPatch G). They are both excellent resources and teach you the Hawaiian way, look, listen, and imitate.
That said, I am the worst offender of the above, since I don't KNOW all the above and still have many songs memorized in several tunings -- go figure. I like the sound of songs in other tunings and I get bored with TaroPatch after a while. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 1:37:47 PM
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Mika'ele,
talking out of both sides of your mouth again, eh? Do as i do, but not as i say? No matter we all do that (well, all of us but that curmudgeonly RJS who states he is imperterbable in his devotioon to taropatch. That's OK, too.)
Roel,
just have fun. If you want to learn something in another tuning, go ahead. There are no rules.....well i do like the one thunbstruck sasid he was given by his kumu;"dis da tumb, come back in tree weeks". Who knows, yo may find a tuning you like better,and you will be just like Raymond and never want to change to another. But, if yo do not explore, you will never know.
And i'll throw one more out there and hope i don;t offend anyone; "George says.." "Ozzie says...", "Sonny says..." You know, that was just themm talking from theri point of view. I do not believe any one of themm was so set in his ways that he would imjpolse that on any student of the form. It is all just guidelines. If you want to learn the music, learn it your way. Explore different tunings, and different arrangements of the same song in the ame tuning. Make up your own tuning like Daniel Ho. Stick with one likeRaymond and play it all in that. I have a video of his where he plays a number of standards and some original compositions in taropatch. It is a good thing to watch as he uses that tunig to good effect. And, has anyone ever done a check on Sonny Chilingworht to see if he even played everything in one tuning?
In fact, i would encourage you to explore other tunings as well as other forms of fingerstyle guitar (DON"T SHOOT!). Swithcing my guitar to different tunings is the only way i have ever written any music. Tune to taropatch and lay down a couple first position chords from standard tuning...some of em sojnd cool. Same thing with open E. Lay down a standard E on top of that and start playing Donovan's Catch the Wind.
Pick what you like and play the heck out of it and share it with someone else.
I talk too much when buiness is slow |
Karl
Frozen North |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 3:33:03 PM
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I agree with the folks who say the equivalent of "you've got to follow your heart." After all, no lives are at stake here - it is "just for fun."
The reason for sticking with one tuning is primarily one of learning. There's a "teaching story" that goes back to at least the 4th. century. It goes something like: if you just let water flow, like across a beach, there is usually not much power. (Not talking about storms.) If you take the same amount of water and make it go through a pipe, the water has more force. If you make it go through a smaller pipe, it has even more force. Sticking to one tuning, at least for a while, concentrates the power. Sure it gets frustrating. But, in my experience, sticking with the frustration and getting through it usually lead to a "breakthrough" - sometimes big, sometimes small. I'm not suggesting making any one tuning a "life partner," but I am suggesting choosing one tuning and staying with it for a while, maybe even a year, for the sake of really learning it well. I can tell anyone from my experience that the better I learned taropatch, the more freedom I got to play what I wanted, the way I wanted. And I definitely am still learning in it, so I stay in it.
Now as to really competant players and teachers. I suppose any really good teacher will help his or her student along the patch that has the most heart for that student. And most slack key Masters play in 2 or 3 tunings. As to imposing things on their students, I won't say "Ozzie said" or "George said" ... but ..., Karl, you might want to talk to Ozzie and/or George about how long they played primarily in Taro Patch before they played in other tunings, and about the "direction" they got from their teachers. The picture I get was much more that those teachers could be, and were, pretty "directive." Don't know about you, but I go to a teacher to learn from them and to become a better player, not to have my current level of playing praised. |
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Sellars
Aloha
Netherlands
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 10:29:20 PM
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Hey thanks all of you! Naturally, I was not looking for any rules of any sort. Just getting advice from players and teachers that are far more advanced than I'll ever be.
For now I'd like to stick with taro for the time being, rather than learning a few songs in a different tuning without really delving into that tuning. It's funny to see that the new things I learned about slack key has also learned me new things for my mandolin playing. I like that!
best!
Roel |
I've always been crazy but that's kept me from going insane (W.J.)
Playing: Ukulele, Slack key guitar, Mandolin |
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Sellars
Aloha
Netherlands
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2006 : 10:47:03 PM
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By the way, the DVD by KEOKI KAHUMOKU (copied that name :D) Is on the top of my wishlist at the moment. As soon as I finish ozzie's book and the taro songs from keola's book I am going to order it. I really like the idea of having a methods course rather than a collection of songs, to start out with.
R |
I've always been crazy but that's kept me from going insane (W.J.)
Playing: Ukulele, Slack key guitar, Mandolin |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 04:44:53 AM
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Another advantage of taropatch tuning is that it's related to Dobro (GBDGBD) and 5 string banjo. Play what makes you happy. Progress comes from practice.
No one does it exactly the same. |
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Rlowenote
Akahai
84 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 06:16:31 AM
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JWN,
Well said! Every slack key book I have has more than one tuning. Only Keoki's DVD stays in Taropatch tuning. I don't have that many slack key books/DVD yet. It just opens the door to a wider selection of tunes/songs.
Like being able to read music makes much more available to you. And I have a room full of music books. Gotta stop buying them though. I'm running out of room.
Ralph |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 06:18:52 AM
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Aloha Roel!
Don't wait 'til you've finished Ozzie's book to order Keoki's DVD - it's a great starting place. And if you ever get close to him, make sure to book a lesson.
John has a point for when you feel secure hopping around the fret board. Drop C is a very useful tuning for playing and singing in the key of C and you only have to lower the #6 string to C from taropatch. If you've played a lot of folk music, it will really give your brain a challenge in that the base strings are switched - for the C chord, it's the 6th string, and for the G7, is the 5th string. That's been a really difficult transition for me (read OLD brain), but it's worth it. If you take a look at the structure of the tunings, you'll see that they aren't necessarily so different. In our workshop with Keoki a couple weeks ago, he had us all tune to taropatch F, "because it's easier on the guitar". And actually, it sounds nice, and my guess is that you can also play better with ukulele players. Obviously, all the structure is exactly the same as Open G/taropatch.
My guess is that you will find tunings you like and are useful, and ones that you don't like. At least that's what I think will happen to me.
n |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2006 : 07:31:06 AM
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I only skimmed what people have already read so forgive me if I repeat. Personally, I think it helps to keep things interesting by changing tunings. It provides some new challenges. If you work on one song, sometimes it feels stale. You move to another song and then when you return to the original song, you approach it with new found perspective. Changing tunings might have a similar effect. I'm not talking about mastering a tuning here. I'm talking about how to keep your practice fun and encouraging. There is no right or wrong answer. But learning is a series of peaks, valleys and plateaus, and you do what you can to get over those humps.
Ultimately it's going to be a personal choice. Do whatever feels right (which seems to be a moving target). |
Andy |
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