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chunkabunchacat
Aloha
2 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2006 : 11:46:18 AM
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To learn to play a guitar in slack key style from scratch (no guitar skills at all) what kind of a guitar would be easiest to learn on?
There are some people advertising "low action" (ie, "Zager", et.al) guitars as being easier on the hands and easier to play---can "low action" guitars be used for slack key tuning?
(I am a 5'4, auntie-type woman, small hands, lots of enthusiasm, but probably no aptitude, eeee, you probably get the idea. So I'm worried about not being able to physically manage it.)
Also, what sort of instruction should I start with---I can't afford extensive private lessions, but I'm generally a good self-learner.
For which things do I really need an instructor, and what can I pick-up from DVD's (personal recommendations here)?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ann
Lodi, California (near Stockton)
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 8:35:43 PM
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I started playing guitar and slack key at the same time, like you. Here's what I learned from my experience.
I would recommend some lessons very early. Even one long lesson will make it a lot easier for you to get going. Also, I think it's better to get started in a direction that will help you in the long run as opposed to work against you.
In terms of material - I haven't seen anything better than Ozzie's book and tape/cd. Ozzie's songs are good, but more importantly, they are set up so that they take you through a very well thought out progression of learning. After that, lots of good DVD's are now available. I like the stuff Bruce Lamb is producing.
As to guitar. You need to get one you can fall in love with. If you love the sound of your guitar, you will increase the chances you will play it. If you think the sound sucks, you'll be more inclined to give into the hunderds of excuses your "lazy mind" will through at you. If the guitar is in good shape and the neck is straight, any competant guitar repair guy (luthier) can set the action for you for open tunings for a couple of dollars. My first guitar, which I still play almost daily, was found through the want adds in our local paper. Another option is rent one for a few months to see if you really will stay with it. (I've given lessons to people who spent a couple of thousand right off the bat, and stopped playing after a few month. That's partly why want adds sometimes help you find good guitars.)
I have moderately small hands. I love the sound of the classical guitar. (nylon string) over the course of my learning my hands "stretched out" so I can play things comfortable on that wider neck. I now find the narrow neck steel strings too confining. If, however, size is a problem, they make smaller size guitars, parlor guitar and well as 3/4 size and 1/2 size. Spend some time at a good guitar store. If you want to make a nice day of it - go to Guitar Solo in San Francisco, afterwards enjoy a nice meal and some shopping or a museum.
Have fun
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chunkabunchacat
Aloha
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2006 : 9:12:41 PM
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This sounds like great advice---I will take it.
Thanks,
Ann |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 4:01:05 PM
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One thing to note that most guitar stores won't tell you. With any guitar, over time, you will develop callouses on your fretting hand finger tips. This will be even more pronounced and take longer to develop with a steel string guitar. The discomfort associated with developing these callouses has been enough to make some people stop pursuing the guitar as an instrument.
When you try out different guitars, find a couple that are in your price range that are comfortable to attempt to play. Notice the small things as they will become big things over time. To judge the sound quality to your ear, have one of the technicians/salespeople sit in front of you and play a song for you on those guitars. Ask if they can play something in a fingerstyle in an altered (lowered) tuning. Buy the one that sounds best to you.
Then find someone on this forum that lives near you and have them show you a few things and to follow-up with you. We all grow when we think we can help someone.
I have learned lots from books and DVDs, but I have learned more important things from the slack key friends near me and the few professional slack key players I have met. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 06:03:42 AM
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re the guitar - don't buy junk. You'll hate playing if the instrument gets in the way. Playability - good action and response -and sound are the keys. You don't need to spend a fortune. However, $100 won't get you what you need unless you're really lucky. Look for used rigs at respectible dealers. Don't buy anything that you haven't played (e.g. eBay)
re instruction. You should get some instruction to start out. Make your instructor teach you a song in the first lesson. Don't mess with rote drill until you can play something well. Use the instructor for answering questions. Once you get your feet wet, invest in beginner videos (Patrick Landeza, Keoki Kahumoku and John Keawe are in my recommended list.) They are inexpensive and you can get a lot out of a good one. Move on to the classic books (Ozzie's, Mark Hanson, Keola Beamer and Mark Nelson). Get with a group playing the same kind of music and use the group to learn and critique your playing. Above all - practice, practice, practice |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 08:40:35 AM
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I, too, started learning the guitar and slack key at the same time. In my opinion, Ron Loo's books and CDs are also great for the beginner, because on the CDs, he patiently talks you through each measure of each song in his books. I don't know any other instructor who does that. In addition, he has quite traditional arrangements of a number of traditional songs, so you get a feel for the form as well as the sound of traditional pieces. The audio (newly reissued on CDs, used to be tapes) is good to practice with for that reason. You hear what the measure is to sound like, and he encourages you to stop and go over it if you need to.
The books are discussed and "reviewed" here on Taropatch under the "Learn" section: http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44 The newly reissued books/cds are available at www.ronloo.com and you can pay via paypal.
Regarding callouses: I found that if my fingertips got sore, playing every other day was a way to keep my hand in and yet allow my fingers to recover. Personally, I think callouses ultimately help my playing.
Also, as many people have mentioned, it is easy to press too hard especially when one is struggling with a new piece or new fingering, so it is good to be mindful of just what is pressure enough to be necessary, and not excessive -- experiment a little to get a feel for it.
I agree with those who said, get a guitar whose sound you love. The joy of hearing the sound will carry you through times of frustration or lack of motivation. "Low Action" guitars can be used for slack key, but they aren't necessary. Action on any guitar can be modified by a decent repair guy, so advertising low action as a selling point seems to me like a gimmick. It's true that lower action is easier on the fingers, and slides and barres are easier. There is a bit of a loss of volume, as I understand it. Higher action can be louder (some more knowledgeable than I am can explain why), so there is a trade-off, but it's your decision as to whether it makes any significant difference to you.
Have fun, and welcome to the 'patch!
aloha,
Sarah
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Ray Sowders
Akahai
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2006 : 8:09:26 PM
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Aloha Sarah and Chunk (I prefer shorter names!!)
Low action guitars are not easy to play loud because of the vibration of the string... when played too loud, they bang up against the neck/frets. This creates nasty buzzing noises and such. A guitar with higher action has more room for string vibration, so they can be played louder. Guitar construction and wood types also lend themselves to loud or soft sound. It's all a personal thing. If my guitar isn’t loud enough, I plug into a sound system of some sort. I prefer letting the PA make things louder for me, I play pretty soft, and like room to bring out certain sections with dynamics, depending on how a song feels....today :)
I am from a different school when it comes to beginner guitar. I had the most junk guitars in the world, and had to earn better ones. A lot of folks who buy expensive guitars before they find out what it takes to practice and work at it, then end up with expensive dusty things in the closet. But hey, I’ve got a bunch of good deals on guitars finding them that way! Again, to each their own. I had to earn the next better guitar, and learn how to treat it and take care of it, so I guess we are all just products of our environment. Bottom line is, do what it takes to continue. It's not the guitar, but the player in my book. So find a way to keep playing! It's worth it, and good for the soul...Good luck!
A hui hou,
Ray
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 11:10:41 AM
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| Bruddah Ray, I'm with you 100%!!! I'm a firm believer in, "it ain't what you got, it's what you do with what you got". Having the best guitar, uke, or whatevahs won't make you a better player unless you practice, practice, practice. |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 4:52:49 PM
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It is still a "team" effort. 
I like the wide variety of quality sounds produced my good musicians on good instruments.
I think most of us on this forum truly appreciate the hard work and sacrifice it takes to make that music and the tradition of teacher to student to guide those efforts.
Nahenahe does not happen by "chance". |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 5:17:05 PM
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| Ray and Art are great musicians. You need something better than the cheapest guitar out there because if you don't start to like the sound of your music soon after you start playing you will quit. But you will find something well under $500 that sounds good to you would be my guess. There's nothing wrong with a used guitar and those you may find much cheaper at the bigger guitar stores. Also, some will trade up for the full price of what you paid for the previous guitar. Personally, I'm waiting for when Mika ele wants to get rid of his Taylor Koa... but meanwhile, I'm enjoying my Dean (under $500) very much. And there are a number of Paracho guitars out there if you decide that a classic guitar has the right feel for you. I have 2, and was delighted to find out about the guitars with the cut-out space, and also with the neck attaching to the body further than the 12th fret. Maybe make friends with a ki ho'alu player and drag them along - - |
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jlsulle
Lokahi
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 07:41:53 AM
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Ann,
After you find that "right guitar for you", get your hands on any and all instructional material you can find. Most people here think that Ozzie Kotani's beginner book and CD are the "bible" and I would certainly agree. Professional instructors are a little hard to find in your area and private lessons can be expensive,however, free instruction is available. I live in Vacaville and if there is anything I can do to help you get started, please contact me through my profile email.
Welcome to taropatch and good luck, Jerry |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 09:36:12 AM
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| Although a great player can make almost any guitar sound good, for a beginner, I've always advised getting a decent guitar that's set up correctly and playable. Sound is not so important for a beginner. A guitar with heavy gauge strings and high action will just frustrate a beginner, who hasn't usually got the grip strength or technique to handle it. Nylon strings are good on that score, but small hands may have trouble with the wide fretboard. I agree that you can certainly find a guitar with good action for under $500, and I also agree that a used guitar is a great possibility. Look for low action and a soft feel for the left hand. A reputable dealer should be able to help you out. Good luck! If you stick with it, it will reward you for years. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 11:38:59 AM
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| Ann, Auntie Nancy (Pua Kai), Mika Ele and Leonard are absolutely correct in that you don't want to buy a "junk" instrument but a decent one. I'm just trying to caution you or any beginner about going out and buying something based solely on the name and the high price thinking that it automatically equates to you playing better. Take the time to do the comparisons that everyone has mentioned to ensure that what you buy is what's best suited for you and your skill level. Then as Ray, Jerry and the others have mentioned, get your hands on as much material as possible and learn as much as you can - but above all else you must practice, practice, practice. As your skills and your passion for playing develop then you might entertain the thought of buying a better quality instrument - maybe even one of those "expensive dusty things" sitting in somebody's closet that Ray alluded to earlier. That's how I found my '66 Fender Jazz Bass 38 years ago. Finally let me say that you've come to the right place to not only find out about playing guitar, but playing Hawaiian style slack key and ukulele as well. The members of the Taropatch "ohana" have an abundance of experience and knowledge that they are always willing to share... |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
Edited by - ArtSap on 06/30/2006 12:24:19 PM |
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