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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2006 : 10:29:39 AM
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There are already about a dozen large windmills along the ridge above the two lane road from Maalea to Lahaina. Used to be that the view from Kihei toward that ridge at Sunset was majestic, now it is just plain ugly with the big turbines jutting up from the ridge! Plus these things are noisy too!
If they could find a windy spot that was remote and not particlularly scenic, these things would not cause such a problem.
A hard choice to have to make to reduce carbon emmissions, I guess.
P.S. - link above brings me to the Active LF Sonar article, not the wind-farm article.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 07/05/2006 10:32:03 AM |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 11:45:35 AM
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Not only birds: bats, too. We need more bug eating bats and bird, not fewer.
I also fail to understand why the best, cleanest air in the world, in the middle of the Pacific, needs to be cleaner. All my nasal allergies cease when I am there. Please don't tell me that the World is one BIG System. - I understand that, but this is the wrong place to start putting them. Howabout the smog in Palo Alto/Cupertino, etc., which I saw as a yellow-green blanket from Monte Bello vineyard of Ridge Vinyards. Start with Santa Cruz.
...Reid |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 12:50:32 PM
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Well, you guys don't want dams, don't want to use uranium, want to rid us of our dependence on mid-east oil, don't want to drill off-shore or in Alaska; and coal miners keep dying in West Virginia...
Did you row your boats to Hawai'i and ride your bikes out to camp? |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 2:27:52 PM
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No Pua Kai,
I want the latest designed nukes, which are safe in themselves, and will, in fact return cost on investment, unlike the antiquated, dangerous plants we have here in the NE. BUT, there is the problem, not solved, about where to put the spent fuel, which is much less with the new designs. I nominate Orange County as a spent fuel repository.
I also vote for clean diesel engined cars, as are all over France, and I vote for abolishment of SUVs, fake hybrids, like the Prius, that make rich liberals feel good, and that get lousy gas mileage, and I vote for walking to the bank, to the hospital, to the drugstore, to the video store. I vote for walking to the video store and for putting on no more than 5K miles per year, as Sarah and I do, with our 2 cars. I vote that everyone should have an old car, like mhy Avanti, that they take care of and has ZERO emissions withs its Cat, and only drive when it is fun and necessary to.
Wind power is a fake that is made economically possible by your government and mine (soon may it change), as are the so-called hybrids and fuel celled vehicles that are only viable because of tax incentives and snotty oneupmanship.
Tell me what it costs to produce the hydrogen for a fuel celled vehicle (Never ask a question you don't know the answer to).
...Reid |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 3:03:50 PM
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quote:
Never ask a question you don't know the answer to
Don't learn much that way.  |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 8:12:11 PM
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Hmmm. Topics such as sustainable energy sources and where they are located can be controversial. Example - the Kennedy clan, going all out to prohibit a large wind farm in their summer home "frontyard."
Nuclear power is also controversial, particularly given the GNEP proposal being pushed by Bush; never mind that currently there are ~ 74 thousand tons of spent fuel in this country w/o a permanent disposal site.
For what it's worth, my 4-cycle motor scooter is legal in California, gets 130 mpg and is a hoot to drive. Lots of smiles come my way as a bonus.
Larry |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 06:22:03 AM
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Sigh -
I shouldn't have used transportation as an example. And of course, in Hawai'i, heating just isn't the point. But electricity is... Once installed, wind propellers are low maintenance, and wind doesn't need to be shipped in, is a clean source - and outsource - and visual polution seems to me to be better than the kind we breathe or that leaves the environment devastated. We have way more in California than they do on Maui and leave way less a blight on the landscape than all the houses, roads, etc.
Hey Larry - Love those scooters - always rent one when visiting Key West - but they sure aren't clean-burning. And I'd hesitate to get an electric one because since they can't be seen in traffic, it's good if they can be heard.
Hopefully, a few folks will be open-minded and willing to give windmills a chance. Maybe if they were bigger, and looked more quaint like the ones in Holland, they'd be better accepted... but I don't think so. |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 08:30:09 AM
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Y'all missing the real problem. Too many people who love the living syle of affluent western civilization. Did you see the story about the consequences China is going through with a growing middle class? The scary thing is that once you have it, it's hard to give up polluting or energy using toys.
So okay, the unsightly windmills might be solved by using ocean currents. Currents will turn submerged propellars to generate power. And of course may also be a probelm for ocean life. But look at the bright side. Free sashimi.
Or maybe the biologist can mess with bird genetics and make them smart enough to avoid propellars i.e. teach them how to read warning signs. Actually,I saw a spot on a TV show where a bird flew towards a turning prop and then made a wild turn/dive to avoid the blade as it flew through. According to observers this was not just a one time occurence. Bird is adapting.
Thanks to all "green" people who look out for the health of the planet. They fight an uphill (more like a mountain) battle to remind us that there's a price to pay for the modern world benefits we enjoy. And honestly, I do find it hard to give up the benefits. So I do token acts like recycling, "yellow is mellow", keep my themostat down and use more blankets, and scooter when I don't need the auto.
Genaro |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 09:16:58 AM
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I think the jury is still out on how many birds are killed by windmills. On most of the really big windmills the blades actually turn fairly slowly (less than 20MPH at the tips).
But one thing is for sure... many, many, many more birds are killed EVERY DAY by flying into the windows of skyscrapers, than could possibly be killed by windmills, even if there were lots more windmills!
I don't hear too many folks talking about outlawing skyscrapers, and tearing down the existing ones! (Of course, I have never liked them one bit myself)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 07/07/2006 09:17:42 AM |
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alohakanakaluka
Lokahi
USA
135 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 6:07:19 PM
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You all have very good insight to this topic on Maui... I am from Maui, and I too feel that the Windmills for a greater purpose serve our needs better... Unfortunately it has changed the face of our Island forever... (as long as they stand...)
I was home just weeks ago and as I awoke in the morning at my mom's house, yawning and doing da morning stretch as I walked out onto her deck... The first thing I used to see was nature, the pure beauty of Hawai'i... No smog, high rise buildings and the noise of a busy freeway. (like on da mainland) Just pure nakedness...
On this day I awoke to the sight of 4 large, bright white windmills along the mauka side of da west Maui mountains... It just didn't feel good at all... It just makes me feel like we are going in the wrong direction with land in Hawai'i... We truly are changing the "face" of Hawai'i... At least on Maui.
Ma'alaea is a very windy area. I used to go surf it when I was younger... When we had strong south swells... Strong offshore winds make Ma'alaea or "freight trains" the fastest wave on earth they say...
We also used to go fishing for "La'i" a very shiny type of fish. (or whatever we would catch... Sometimes the wind was so strong over there that it would feel like somebody was pushing you from behind!
I can understand the idea of harnessing the natural resource...But it makes home look... Like a different place... An eyesore.
Well, I was always told: What's done is done and in the past, good things come and go so fast... Live life and enjoy da ride, when your on dat wave... Pull inside!
Mahalo for all of your great insight on da subject! Akua Ho'omaika'i
Timmy
P.S. This just reminds me of a song I love by Pekelo Cosma... My Island Maui. Listen to it sometime and dream... |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 10:17:39 PM
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Ae Timmy, you know, all our homes are changing over time. Too many people! I remember the road ending not too far past Azeka's place, and Makena was deserted. I would get one laulau, one beer, one pack Kitchen Cook'd chips, and sit on the beach watching the whales.
The Inter-Continental was about the last hotel on that row. Now there is a big Maui Prince with bus-loads of Japanese visitors.
Here in California, big companies are cutting down the redwoods for building, although redwood is a bad building material. Second and third growth do not have the insect and fire resistant qualities the old-growth had. Cars are much bigger, houses are more expensive. Stores are huge. Malls are gigantic.
Last month I walked by a conference room at the company where I was working and saw 4 white guys at the meeting table. I was shocked! I hardly ever see that many Caucasions in one place in Silicon Valley anymore! I see plenty of Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indians, Middle Easterners.
As for me, I try not to use plastics, paper plates, etc. and RECYCLE everything I use. Sometimes I take stuff home from work where they do NOT recycle much. I carpool whenever possible. Don't turn on my air-conditioning. Will go solar as soon as we can afford it. Turn off lights when not in use. We can always strive to do the best we can as individuals.
And I do try to remember that I am on earth for a very short time and that I would like to leave it in good shape. K'den, enough!
Hugs don't cause global warming, do they?
Julie |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 09:16:20 AM
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Hi Jules -
No, Hugs cause local warming. A very good thing. And you led us well at camp, using our kitchen plates instead of paper plates for meals. It's frustrating sometimes. But Think Globally, Act Locally is a great motto for most of us.
PS: Hope to see pix soon!!
Puliki nui,
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lat21north
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 09:56:22 AM
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Aloha awakea,
One remarkable sight that no Maui visitor should miss is the landfill at Puunene. Kind of brings home the concept of an island. Hmmm, maybe the developers should visit that place too!
What humans do to the land has many faces. Some photovoltaic systems on rooftops--maybe not too bad. Build out Makena--bad.
So we try to make change to be the best it can, refuse plastic bags at the market, influence others to make good decisions, and play some nice music.
By the way, if a person ever needed to provide input to a Maui County Council member, their email addresses can be found via:
http://www.co.maui.hi.us/county/members/
e hau 'oli kakou
Bill |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 5:40:36 PM
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So here is my latest saying, and I hope to include it in a big recycling effort here on the Central California Coast:
THINK BEFORE YOU TOSS: YOUR GARBAGE DOES NOT LEAVE THIS PLANET!
Please: reduce, reuse, recycle. |
Edited by - Julie H on 07/22/2006 5:41:26 PM |
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