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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 10/26/2006 : 02:33:15 AM
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Sarah tested it yesterday in a soundproof room at the Yale School of Music. With a piano, too. I hope she will find time to report. A few things I remember that she said last night: She was impressed with the lack of machine noise - our minidisk used to clunk when buttons were pushed and whir and both were recorded and our tape was awfully noisy.The H4 controld make no recorded noise. She also said she thought she had discovered a control that would increase the attached mic sensitivity (boost preamp?), but not sure, yet. She was impressed with the clarity of the sound. She recorded herself singing, as if the H4 were a mic :-) and holding it that way. I hope she gets a minute today to write her observations better than I did.
Oh yeah, she treated the H4 as an "iPod". She loaded mp3s from iTunes (I think) into the SD Card and listened to the music through the earphones. mp3s are mp3s. My car has a "media" input on its sound system, and this is for iPods, etc., now including the H4.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 10/26/2006 02:44:58 AM |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 08:40:22 AM
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Preliminary impressions of operating the H4 after a completely unscientific road test by a non-technoid new user. 
Conclusion: sound fidelity (i.e., a guitar sounds just like a guitar, a piano sounds just like a piano) and clarity (lack of muddiness or distortion) was impressive, ease of use okay with practice (there is a learning curve), very portable & good for casual use, a practical replacement for a portable tape recorder and with an unbelievable leap in sound quality. I’m very favorably impressed.
[EDITED] I have found that the default Mic levels (L,M,H) can be adjusted. if I go to “LEVEL” in the INPUT, and adjust them via a number whose default is 100 but can be set higher or lower to raise or lower the levels, but see Reid's post following this one.
Also it’d be nice to have a padded case for carrying the H4 around. I’ll be looking into that, but any ideas would be welcome -- such as a padded camera case of the right dimensions, perhaps.
RECORDING:
Yesterday I took the H4 to a soundproofed practice room to familiarize myself with the thing. The initial exploration of controls and operation the night before made it clear that the H4 is one of those gadgets that, like a digital camera, has a bunch of menus and settings that require getting familiar with to move around with any efficiency (even moreso as the readouts are quite tiny). You have to know what menu is hiding what information, so this is the first learning curve.
I made 5 tracks. Stereo mode, internal mic (U87 modeling), no auto gain or level scanning. Mic was always on HI (default levels), MP3/320 format.
1) singing: hand held approx 12” from my mouth, mic facing away from me so I could see the controls (!) and with no wind screen. The result was remarkably clear, but my P’s popped. By comparison, the volume was a bit lower than subsequent vocal tracks, due to mic placement.
2) singing: hand held like a microphone, near mouth, using wind screen. Very clear result, more of that “miced voice” sound, a feeling of proximity. No pops of plosives with the screen (important!)
3) piano: here I set the H4 on a bench to the side of the piano, about 3 feet from the piano and about 6-8 feet from me at the keyboard. Resulting track sounded just like a piano, but not as loud as I would have expected – especially as the mic was on HI and the piano is a big instrument. My “noise” getting to and from the keyboard was minimal – some “concert rustling” sounds.
4) and 5) were to confirm the setup for track 2). No earphones with me so I had to wait to hear playback.
I noted that for all my tests, the levels read as medium, with values only more or less halfway across the level bars (a scale from -48 db to 0, with -24 at the midpoint) --with the exception of the piano: I couldn't see the levels while playing, so I don't know what they were. This struck me as less than ideal, given that I tried singing straight into the mic, so I’m looking into a way they might be adjusted.
To minimize handling noise when I hand-held the H4, I was very careful not to move anything but my thumb resting on the REC button. I pressed the REC button twice in succession to go straight into recording mode. When I finished what I was singing, I pressed REC once to stop. I still got a clicking noise at the start and end of my tracks, the ending click being less obtrusive.
Pressing the REC button once only puts you in Standby Mode, where you can preview the levels. You press a second time to start recording (but in my case, I knew the levels were middling and weren’t anything I knew how to adjust). Each time you Press REC once to go into Standby Mode, it automatically creates a new file in anticipation of your recording. If you choose not to record, you can cancel by pressing the round Menu button to “back-up” to the main menu.
FILE HANDLING:
I got back to my office and put the SD disk in my (Mac) computer: the contents appeared as two folders, one containing some kind of a Windows file (prm?), and the other containing 5 .mp3’s with their very familiar icon. BTW, the SD card is really hard to grab to get it out: I thought I’d have to resort to a tweezers. There isn’t enough space behind it to fit a fingertip, and the sides don’t eject far enough to grab them well, either.
I dragged the icons to new folder on my hard drive, and asked ITunes to play them. Wonderful, zero-noise, intimate (earphones), clear sound. I was very pleased. My tape recorder can’t hold a candle to this quality (tape noise, motor hum, cheap mic), even in a soundproofed room. I noted, BTW, that the ambient noise in my office was ridiculously high (mostly due to the air circulation system), registering about 1/3 of the way up the levels bars: nearly as high as my deliberate recordings in the soundproofed room.
Since I want to use this unit as a study tool also, as I do my tape recorder, I wondered about the H4’s ability to play files it had not created, such as a tune I might want to study. I could then load files I wanted to study, and listen, and record, just like with my handy tape recorder.
So I took a ready-made MP3 from my computer (Mr. Sun Cho Lee) and dragged and dropped it into the H4’s folder containing my 5 recorded tracks. No hitches there. Then I put the SD back in the H4 and located the list of files, saw that Mr.SunChoLee.mp3 had indeed been added to the list. I pressed playback, and lo! I heard, delightfully clearly, the delightful song. Moreover, the little file name was moving across its field like a tiny ticker-tape! The other files’ names just sit there, static, when played. Playback plays one file after another without stopping; you can select a given file for playback; you can specify a repeat loop within a file by selecting the times (I haven’t tried that yet.)
I can imagine using the 128MB SD card provided for an IPod-like collection of MP3s, while reserving larger capacity SD cards for the recording work.
-Sarah
P.S. I advise reading the Addendum with corrections to the manual. It says (among other things) that there should be no 144 in any of the lists that contain it among the available sizes. 144 is *not* available.
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Edited by - Sarah on 10/27/2006 03:35:25 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 02:27:49 AM
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It *is* possible to increase the mic gain setting above the nominal "100" that it is when the switch is on "H". You can set it as high as 127 (0-127 is a power of 2 :-). However, these higher settings don't seem to be linear; they increase the gain a lot and you can clip if not careful. For safety's sake it is probably best to use the "Limit" (or "Compression", if you are comfortable with that)function when increasing mic gain in a setting where the volume of the input is likely to be highly variable or unknown.
...Reid
...Reid |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 08:57:40 AM
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Bryan, you mention on your web site that you'd like to see an 1/8" stereo input. Bear in mind that the input jacks are combo XLR/1/4" and so you can plug in your 1/8" with a simple adapter cable from Radio Shack or the like.
Reid, I found that the compressor has a nasty tendency to raise room noise during silent periods so I'd advise against using it. The limiter works nicely to avoid clipping and there is also an automatic level adjustment option that will sample the sound while you're in record standby (one press of the record button) and set the levels accordingly. Also, at least with the internal mics, all gain switch settings can be fine-tuned with a level setting of 0-127. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/27/2006 09:03:31 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 11:09:21 AM
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Thanks, Craig. The Limiter is what we will use, then. The Auto Level Adjustment, will be good for those things we know will be relatively constant volume (which actually, with us, happens to be very rare - just our style). We'll avoid the compressor, because we *always* have a pretty loud ambient noise level.
This thing is really fun and surprisingly good, and convenient, for what we want to do.
...Reid |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 11:16:44 AM
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One thing to note is that if you're using external mics you do have full control over the compressor's settings.
Also, don't forget that the H4 doubles as a USB interface, allowing you to record directly to your computer (with or without effects).
Craig |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/27/2006 11:18:14 AM |
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chantyfan
Aloha
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 12:45:59 PM
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I havn't been able to determine if I plug my little capsule stero mics (which are on one cable and one plug) if I can get a stereo image from plugging into one jack. Anyone know anything about that?
>B |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 6:55:10 PM
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quote:
Reid, I found that the compressor has a nasty tendency to raise room noise during silent periods so I'd advise against using it.
That would be the case with any use of compression in recording. So it's not a function of the compression circuit in the H4.
In case you are new to recording, here's what compression does: it compresses the signal; in essense making loud stuff quieter so you can make quiet stuff louder. You use it to tame widely fluctuating signals, or to smooth out the differences between, say, the initial pick attack and the sustaining part of a guitar note.
Depending on a number of factors, it will also raise the noise floor, particularly if there is no louder signal to mask it.
Most studio dogs use compression very sparingly, if at all, when recording. Electric bass is a good candidate & sometimes you'll track vocals with compression just to get them smooth and fat before adding more compression when mixing.
With the H4, you can use some compression to help quite vocals, smooth out & add sustain to guitars, etc. I agree with Craig that it's not reallly meant for a one-size-fits-all recording approach.
Limiting is a kind of compression that basically doesn't allow anything past a certain loudness threshold to get through. Again, depending on lots of factors it can either help you record loud stuff, or totally trash your recordings.
(Yes, I'm being deliberately non-techie.)
quote:
I havn't been able to determine if I plug my little capsule stero mics (which are on one cable and one plug) if I can get a stereo image from plugging into one jack. Anyone know anything about that?
I'm assuming you are talking about something with a 1/8" mini stereo plug? You'll need to Y 'em to a pair of 1/4" plugs. There's no way to turn a single mono input to stereo - on this or any other device.
Sounds like you guys are all having lots of fun with your new Handy Recorders. Keep it up!
cheers,
Mark
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 10:13:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
quote:
Reid, I found that the compressor has a nasty tendency to raise room noise during silent periods so I'd advise against using it.
That would be the case with any use of compression in recording.
True, assuming you raise the overall gain to compensate for the compression effect, but in this case the H4 seems to be too heavy-handed in its compression. It almost sounds as if it's using an expander in conjunction with the compressor with the expander threshhold set too low. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/30/2006 10:14:25 AM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 11:08:59 AM
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Craig's right, of course. I'd been fooling around in 4 track mode, which has different FX with considerably more control. He was referring to the compressor in "stereo" mode - which I hadn't listened to.
That one is more like an "auto gain" control; very similar to what you find on voice recorders or some old cassettes. The idea is to make it possible to record people sitting around a conference table where some voices are loud and the boss is mumbling.
So no, the compression is not going to win any awards. Used as an effect, it is more or less adequate for electric guitar or bass -- tons of multi FX boxes (including the MagicStomps) have a similar one size fits all compressor. In a guitar chain, you'd often stick a gate after the compressor (and all the fuzz stuff) to avoid that sucking grunge sound.
BTW: all the FX on the H4 are pretty over the top and mostly electric-guitar centric, but you can mitigate some of the worst offenders. I think they are a very useful addition. They do sound just like.... Zoom effects. The sound that launched a zillion pimply-faced bedroom guitar heros....
I'm hoping to wrap up my review in the next few days. I'll post general conclusions here when I'm done.
Happy Hallowe'en!
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Edited by - Mark on 10/31/2006 11:19:57 AM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 3:10:03 PM
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Samson, parent company of Zoom has finally copped to the MP3 encoding problem. Of course, it's buried on the PR page, but it's a start. http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/news/news147/index.php
quote:
Important Notice about HANDY RECORDER H4
The following problem has been confirmed on H4 System Version 1.00.
At recording in MP3 with 256kps or VBR, it contains squeaky noise in the result.
The above problem happens because of software error of MP3 encoder. In case you record in MP3 format, please set bit rate other than 256kbp or VBR. System updater fixing this problem will be released on our website by the end of November.
I like the bit about "squeaky noise." Unh hunh. And fingernails on a chalk board is a pleasant scraping sound.
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 08:27:27 AM
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| Just a quick note that I finally had a chance to start testing with an external mic using the 4-track mode and I am hearing the access light noise that Mark mentioned earlier. It's only going to be an issue if you're recording in a quiet environment but it's definitely loud enough to be annoying in that scenario. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 10:09:16 AM
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Hi all -
OK, I've sent off the review along with multi-megs of audio clips to my editor. At this point it might be as long as a month before the review gets published.
Since I may be the only schmoe who's had the chance to look at all three of the inexpensive flash recorders on the market, I'd tho't I share some very general conclusions with y'all. Please do not copy and paste these anywhere else, OK? Let's keep this a Taropatch.net exclusive.
Microtrack 24-96
pros:
Great audio quality (with external mics)
Very EZ to use
Does one thing and does it very well
Included mini mics adequate for basic field recording
cons:
Internal battery cannot be replaced
Battery discharges when unit is at rest
Phantom power not up to spec
1/4" TRS inputs for mics -- could damage mics or recorder if phantom shorts out
Edirol R09
pros:
Small size and very EZ to use
Decent internal mics
Great battery life w/ replaceable AA batteries
cons:
No windscreem
1/8 mini stereo inputs for external mics w/ no phantom power
Omni mics don't give best stereo image
Effects weak
Zoom H4
pros:
Versatile operation: stereo, 4-track & USB interface mode
Internal mics well-balanced w/ decent stereo image
Good battery life with replaceable AA batteries
Includes windscreen & tripod adaptor
1/4 "/XLR combo connectors with 24 & 48 mV phantom
cons:
Difficult to set levels
Hard to get adequate gain w/ external mics - noise in mic pre's
4-track mode weak
Tiny display & confusing navigation
Software bug with MP3 encoding
Possible bug leading to noise when accessing memory.
Which one should you buy? I haven't a clue.
Happy recording!
Mark
I changed the reference to "internal mics" to "included mini mic" on the Microtrack in the interest of accuracy.
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Edited by - Mark on 11/08/2006 08:17:19 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 2:32:48 PM
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I still haven't had time to do my full review of the H4, but I do have a couple of comments to add to Mark's, which I mostly agree with. (I have a Microtrack and an H4.)
- Technically the Microtrack doesn't have internal mics...it comes with a small external mic that has to be connected. The mic is adequate, but since it's external it's inconvenient and easy to forget.
- The Microtrack's sound quality is great if you feed it a digital signal (and it's the only one of the three units Mark mentions that will record a digital input) but in my experience it suffers from the same noise floor issues with the internal preamps as all of the units in this price range.
- I've had two Microtracks fail on me, and M-Audio's customer support is so bad if something DOES go wrong that I'll never buy another M-Audio product again. I'm not the only one I know who feels this way.
- I don't have the same difficulties setting levels on the H4 as Mark does, perhaps because I use the poorly-name auto-gain setting, which samples the levels before you start recording and then sets them based on the sample when you start recording. (Not to be confused with AGC, which constantly changes levels while you're recording.)
- The 4-track capabilities and guitar effects in the H4 are frosting on the cake as far as I'm concerned, so any functionality they add is a plus. If you need a 4-track recorder, however, this isn't it.
- I am definitely not impressed with my experience so far using external mics with the H4 and need to talk to Samson after I do some more testing. I've seen other reports indicating that the noise floor is better than the Microtrack or R09 so we'll have to see.
For me, the only one of the three I'd seriously consider buying for recording music would be the H4, if for no other reason than the sound quality and stereo image from the internal mics and the 1/4"/XLR connectors. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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