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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1019 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2006 : 07:30:12 AM
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At the risk of starting another copyright thread, I do have the follow question: I've penned what I thought was an original slack key tune with English lyrics. After getting it in an acceptible shape, I heard (or more likely, re-heard) a similar basic melody in another song. While the basic structure is similar, mine has a chorus (the other doesn't), and intro (ditto) and is played in a different key and a somewhat different style. While I suspect that I got the basic melody from this other tune, I've added lots of differences. I still feel somewhat guilty, though. I know that there's really little new in music, but I'm sensitive to the issues here. I'm not going to make any money on this, but I may eventually record this song and I will probably play it regularly in public. Do I need to annotate my possible source(s) or is it an option?
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 07:59:43 AM
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| You want a legal opinion or a gut feel? |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 09:44:00 AM
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Legal opinion: It depends.
Gut feel: if YOU recognize that there's a possible connection to the other song, garans that someone else will as well - and that might be someone who can sue your okole. Credit the other source, or put the song away with a heavy sigh.
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 10:02:42 AM
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George Harrison was successfully sued for plagiarism for the similarities in melody between "My Sweet Lord" and the Chiffons' "She's So Fine" so I'd say from a strictly legal standpoint you're on shaky ground. Of course, it all depends on what you end up doing with the song...I don't think you run into potential problems until you play for a paying audience or start selling recordings.
BTW, if the similarity between "My Sweet Lord" and "She's So Fine" isn't immediately obvious, check out the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ZILyfCaaQ |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 12/20/2006 12:56:10 AM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 10:56:05 AM
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I'm sure that Peter Medeiros can quote chapter and verse on this, but it really does depend on the specifics--there are, after all, certain inevitabilities when constructing a tune within the confines of a folk tradition. Then there's the fact that much slack key is already built on what went before--think anybody really owns any of the familiar V-I turnaround vamps? None of which means that a sufficiently litigious person wouldn't be willing to try to make a case. (And think of all the publishers who claim to own traditional songs that actually predate modern copyright law.) But I suspect that in the real world, insufficiently deep pockets (especially when coupled with obscurity) keep most of us safe from lawsuits.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 11:20:58 AM
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| Well, at least obscurity has one blessing! |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 12:33:49 PM
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Chunky,
When you perform the song, explain how the melody might be similar and credit that composer. You can give it your own name -- you created the arrangement. When you become rich and famous, they'll come after you. If the former is unlikely the latter is just as unlikely.
** (fine print - this is not a binding legal opinion as my only legal training was with "Rocks and Shoals" and any legal advice implied or inferred from my previous comments is not worth the electrons it took to project this on your tiny little computer screen)  |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 3:14:35 PM
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Chunk, you are pono. That is all that counts in the Hawaiian world. Everyone knows you and knows that. Russell said all you need to know. I will add that there was a very interesting YouTube video that popped when Berean played his `uke slack key piece - the one that Hikabe said was not a slack key because of no bass counterpoint yadda yadda yadda. It was about how Gabby stole the riff of Shambala and nobody figured it out because he played it twice as fast and it became a part of the slack key "idiom". Do it and, if somebody comes after you, promise you won't do it anymore. Screw 'em. You have no downside exposure.
...Reid |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 12:53:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Do it and, if somebody comes after you, promise you won't do it anymore. Screw 'em.
The mantra of everyone who has ever downloaded music for free off the internet. Nice. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 03:21:22 AM
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I never ever even downloaded any music or any art Craig, and Chunk's situation is so ambiguous he shouldn't worry about anything. In addition, you do know what pono means, don't you? Take words out of context. Nice.
...Reid |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 04:35:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Chunk, you are pono. That is all that counts in the Hawaiian world. Everyone knows you and knows that. Russell said all you need to know. I will add that there was a very interesting YouTube video that popped when Berean played his `uke slack key piece - the one that Hikabe said was not a slack key because of no bass counterpoint yadda yadda yadda. It was about how Gabby stole the riff of Shambala and nobody figured it out because he played it twice as fast and it became a part of the slack key "idiom". Do it and, if somebody comes after you, promise you won't do it anymore. Screw 'em. You have no downside exposure.
...Reid
Hi Reid,
It's a little after four in the morning here. After decorating the tree and house last nite I should sleeping late, but I guess it's the age thing. Anyway I have a question what is this about Gabby stealing a riff from Shambala? Is this the song by Three Dog Night?
Peter |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1019 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 05:24:26 AM
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| short of hearing something definitive from Peter, I like Mike's suggestion. I'm going to credit the originators of the basic melody, if I do this in public. Thanks for the input. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 06:16:36 AM
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Hi Peter,
Yes it is the 3 Dog Night song. On the Brown Album.
You can see the clip at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoqEq0zh-fA
It is by poynesiafilms.com and is entitled:
Talking Gabby Story - Good ol days with Gabby Pahinui
It has other interesting tidbits in it too, like Gabby using a "funky" Bb jazz tuning.
Enjoy,
Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 12/20/2006 06:18:04 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 06:29:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
I never ever even downloaded any music or any art Craig, and Chunk's situation is so ambiguous he shouldn't worry about anything. In addition, you do know what pono means, don't you? Take words out of context. Nice.
I know what pono means and never accused you of downloading anything. My point was that the statement I quoted is both a common one and a dangerous one when it comes to justifying copyright infringement. As a book author I'm very sensitive to the copyright issue and don't take it lightly. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 08:50:27 AM
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quote:
Yes it is the 3 Dog Night song. On the Brown Album
Far out!
The sad part is I'd never heard the 3 Dog Night song before watching the clip...
Getting back to the topic at hand: Chunk, the chances of your song being an infringement in the scary sense are pretty dang slim. 50,000 singer-songwriters cop riffs, melodies and even hooks from pre-existing songs everyday. It's called "the folk process" and is OK as long as no one is hurt by it. By hurt I mean taking a hit in the pocketbook or reputation.
I know how easy it is to borrow something without meaning to. Once I spent weeks perfecting a new melody, only to discover I'd painstakingly recreated "The Boys of Wexford," a common 19th Centrury Irish hornpipe...
And let's not forget that "Matt's Bounce" bears a suspicious resemblance to "Manini."
I swear I was innocent. I don't even know the dame....
Mark |
Edited by - Mark on 12/20/2006 08:54:20 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:11:25 AM
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There are a lot of people here who are overly sensitive about copyright. I don't think you have a worry about copyright. Think about all the 12-bar blues that sound suspiciously the same.
There are also a lot of people who say "I wrote a slack key song". Often, many of these songs sound like someone noodling around in open G. What makes a song unique are the words. Play slack key guitar and tell the story and you'll be okay. You could credit Gabby or Sonny for some part of the melody, but they probably didn't originate it, so who knows? They were solidly in the folk tradition, too.
Jesse Tinsley |
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