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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
 Posted - 02/15/2007 : 1:52:01 PM
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Yes, I went back and looked at this year's preliminary ballot myself. I've only found a handful of Irish/Celtic artists have entered, and when I did find them they were in the "Folk" section as well, not "World". The logic there is probably the same, those styles (with the possible exception of sean nos - an unaccompanied Irish vocal style - are more western folk than African, Asian and Middle Eastern styles as well. Some have suggested an India origin from some Celtic styles, but other some musicial similarities that many write off as coincidence, there isn't much other evidence to support it.
Keola
quote:
Originally posted by Retro
[quote]Originally posted by keoladonaghy
Thanks, Keola. As you probably know, the "World Music" field only has two categories: "Traditional" & "Contemporary." NARAS doesn't break down the category along any ethnic designations - there's no Celtic Album, Aftican Album, Asian Album, etc. - so they wouldn't put Hawaiian here, either.
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Kawehipulamahia
Aloha
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 2:02:24 PM
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It is true to what each of you speak, and I applaud every artist. However, think of it from a musicians point of view... How can we not think anything is wrong when you have certain albums in the wrong categorized genre? Like I have mentioned, I have bought Lei's CD and I love it, however there is nothing that makes this album sound R & B, it is a reggae/jawaiian genre album...every single song on it has a reggae beat. So, does this make it right for that album to be categorized as a R&B album? Or should it have been moved to it's proper category. HARA has seen this in the past and has done an excellent job, HMA needs to follow it's example. Let's just say that I came out with a Hawaiian album, and I entered it into the Traditional Hawaiian category for the HMA's. Now comes the time for votes to be made, and I have over...lets just say 300 family members and over thousands of friends all over the world...and I asked everyone to vote for me and they did...now, they announce the winners...and I won. Tell me is that right, deserving the votes that I got from all those friends and all my family, or would you say that I received those votes unfairly by stuffing the ballots for my own gain. Was it the ACTUAL public that voted for me for the win, or was it my friends and family that did it? You see, HARA also saw this as a way to sway votes anyones way, which is why there is a MEMBERSHIP involved with the Hoku public voting process...that is what HMA should do. I know Johnny Kai very well and he is a great guy, however it is not Johnny Kai that is being dumped on here, it is the process of how the HMA is actually run. The Hawai`i Music Awards is a great thing for the artists, but it does need to be re-worked and re-organized. I believe some of the winners deserved to win their respectable categories, but I also believe some artists should have not been in those categories where it wasn't their respective genre.
If I had a Jawaiian album, and entered it into the R&B and/or International category and I won, knowingly knowing that I had a Jawaiian/Reggae genre, is it right for me to walk away with that award...something to think about.
Aloha,
Kawehi |
Edited by - Kawehipulamahia on 02/15/2007 2:09:02 PM |
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kealiiblaisdell
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 2:30:46 PM
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All of you have awesome inputs on this topic. But you see, for me, this is not about an award, any award for that matter. It is for my love of music, Hawaiian music in general. It is my passion and my way in continuing our tradition and culture to everyone. I was taught to share our aloha with everyone. Now, as for the awards, mahalo Kawehi for your mana`o but I think it's a little too extreme. People who won their awards are deserving of it and I congratulate everyone of them. Im not in this for an award or for recognition and I believe that Johhny Kai is doing a great job for our artists. I also have questioned the category issues concerning the HMA's, but really it is not my place to say. If anyone really did have a problem, maybe they should contact Johnny Kai himself. Let's have these artists have the moment that each of them rightfully deserves, let them shine. After all Kawehi, didn't you mention something about hard work in a recording studio? I'm not trying to upset anyone here, i'm just trying to support my fellow artists and my friends.
Mahalo-
Keali`i |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 2:34:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kawehipulamahia
Was it the ACTUAL public that voted for me for the win, or was it my friends and family that did it?
However you motivate the "public" is fine, because every other artist can do the same; I consider your family and friends to be part of the "actual public." quote:
Originally posted by Kawehipulamahia
You see, HARA also saw this as a way to sway votes anyones way, which is why there is a MEMBERSHIP involved with the Hoku public voting process...that is what HMA should do.
Why should HMA duplicate HARA's efforts? Let them do something different. HARA is an industry group, just like NARAS; why shut the public out of the process altogether? |
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kealiiblaisdell
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 2:53:28 PM
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True, very true...
quote:
Originally posted by Retro
quote:
Originally posted by Kawehipulamahia
Was it the ACTUAL public that voted for me for the win, or was it my friends and family that did it?
However you motivate the "public" is fine, because every other artist can do the same; I consider your family and friends to be part of the "actual public." quote:
Originally posted by Kawehipulamahia
You see, HARA also saw this as a way to sway votes anyones way, which is why there is a MEMBERSHIP involved with the Hoku public voting process...that is what HMA should do.
Why should HMA duplicate HARA's efforts? Let them do something different. HARA is an industry group, just like NARAS; why shut the public out of the process altogether?
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Makuakane
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 12:20:23 AM
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Aloha kakou,
I just received this forum thread from a friend who wanted me to read the different comments made about myself, fellow artists and Hawaiian music in general. I am in awe of the plethora of passion that exudes in each person's mana‘o.
I agree with most of the comments and have reservations on others, respecting always the pono intentions of its writer. Like most everything in life, contests and competitions are always fair to the winners and politically slanted by those who come in second place. It is likened to the adage that history (wars, battles and conflicts) is only written by the winners. I have traveled this competition road many, many times, knowing full well the precarious position I placed myself into by submitting my product for consideration. I know that I have a choice to either forego the competition all together or to enter it, well aware of the outcome.
In the case of this year's HMA, I weighed my options and decided to enter the competition for the first time, knowing that it was a "people's choice" award. Those with more internet savvy or contacts were able to secure a considerable camp of biased voters, while less competent entrants were smothered in the process. This is an internet people's choice award and the internet world, as we have come to know it, has spoken loud and clear. Make no mistake, all music awards are individualized voter perceptions, no more, no less. If you voted for your favorite artist and that person lost, it does not devalue the worth of your vote in the eyes of the artist that lost. Your one vote showed this artist that the music he/she recorded had value to YOU, giving value to his/her life.
I am honored to have been given the opportunity to showcase at least one minute of my music to thousands of listeners who previously have never heard me, and who may possibly think of purchasing my product in the future. Had it not been for the HMA, my music would have taken longer to reach their ears and hearts.
I have many purposes in my life's journey, among them is the preservation of my Hawaiian culture so my ‘ohana and yours know where we come from, the perpetuation of my Hawaiian culture so the future generations will know what contributions of self worth and cultural essence my life might someday impart, and the effort made to bring our people into the mindset that unless you create your own rules in your own backyard, do not complain about playing in someone else's backyard under their rules - they will always win and you will inevitably lose.
I believe that every single artist who entered this awards competition truly felt that his/her/their CD was the culmination of their best recorded effort, therefore worthy of inclusion to the HMA. Bravo to all of you. I mua e na mele o kou na‘au!
Me ka ha‘aha‘a,
Kenneth Makuakane |
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Kawehipulamahia
Aloha
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 01:58:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kealiiblaisdell
All of you have awesome inputs on this topic. But you see, for me, this is not about an award, any award for that matter. It is for my love of music, Hawaiian music in general. It is my passion and my way in continuing our tradition and culture to everyone. I was taught to share our aloha with everyone. Now, as for the awards, mahalo Kawehi for your mana`o but I think it's a little too extreme. People who won their awards are deserving of it and I congratulate everyone of them. Im not in this for an award or for recognition and I believe that Johhny Kai is doing a great job for our artists. I also have questioned the category issues concerning the HMA's, but really it is not my place to say. If anyone really did have a problem, maybe they should contact Johnny Kai himself. Let's have these artists have the moment that each of them rightfully deserves, let them shine. After all Kawehi, didn't you mention something about hard work in a recording studio? I'm not trying to upset anyone here, i'm just trying to support my fellow artists and my friends.
Mahalo-
Keali`i
Okay, I apologize to anyone that I may have upset or hurt. But when it comes down to it, really it is politics. Every thing that we see, hear and include in our lives involves politics. And your right Keali`i, I did mention that. So I apologize for it. On a different note, i'm very glad to see Mr. Makuakane here on the TP. It is such an honor to have Ken Makuakane and Keali`i Blaisdell here in the TP to share with us their mana`o and aloha. Like I said earlier, you both are originals, you both write very nahenahe mele's and am very proud knowing that Traditional Hawaiian Music and it's legacy has been passed to two fine and upstanding people like yourselves. Keep doing what both of you are doing...I am proud to be Hawaiian because of people like you.
It's so surreal. I say this because look, here we have two awesome artists, original artists at that. They write the language, speak the language, both have awesome CD's in their names, all originals on them....and what else........very humble, decent and down to earth gentlemen here, in the taropatch talking and sharing their mana`o to us, the fans!!!
Now that is awesomeness in itself!!!
Right on Ken, right on Keali`i!!!
Big Aloha to you both!!!!
Kawehi : ) |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 08:33:48 AM
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Many people have issues with all three awards. Of the three I think the HMA (and JKai) are more open to suggestions and willing to implement them. Johnny did a survey about whether or not to release running totals of the awards. I thought it was a bad idea, told him so, and he replied that there was overwhelming opposition to showing running totals once the voting begun. Doubtful if he will do it. Trying to avoid fraud and ballot stuffing is nearly impossible on the web, he has tried to mitigate it with his "one email address/one vote" policy but that's not difficult to circumvent. The point is, if people have issues with the HMAs it would be worthwhile to discuss it with him. Whether it is the number of categories that seem to be in a state of flux, that there are no minimum entries to maintain a category, whatever, I think he would be receptive to suggestions. A few years ago he put out a call for people to join an advisory board. I don't know who if anyone did so; I was too busy with other things at the time to participate but would consider it now.
As far as Na Hoku and Grammy, because of their histories and sense of tradition, change is more difficult. With the number of new and active members on the HARA board, they seem more open than ever to participation by the membership insofar as the membership wishes to be active. I was at the last HARA membership meeting, and there were far too few members in attendance. The Grammys are tougher. There are only about 100 Hawai'i members out of 11,000 in the national Academy. Unfortunately many people only seem get active and interested in any of the organizations when they have releases eligible for the awards.
Perhaps JKai would be willing to get involved in a discussion here about the HMA's, but it might be better to wait until the festivities are over next month. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 09:29:49 AM
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| I wanted to add the reason why I think it would be better to put the "Hawaiian" category into "World" music, as opposed to folk. I do understand the musicological reasons for puutting it into folk, and they are accurate. My thinking comes from my informal take on who votes in those categories and how they view music -- based upon just a couple of meetings of the local Academy chapter. Ii seems to me that the people I met who were interested in "world" music had a broader take on the music than most of the "folkies" I met. (Both groups, however, were in the far minority of people present.) On one level Hawaiian music seems very approachable and quite beautiful. On another level, it takes some sophistication to get a sense of what is really happening there. I think world music people are more prone to trying to set music into its cultural context, trying to get some understanding of the cultures and their contexts, than are folkies. Folkies do tend to like good guitar playing - but Hawaiian music IS more than that. Practically speaking, a moot point probably not worth even spending the time it took my to write this. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 09:39:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kawehipulamahia
It's so surreal. I say this because look, here we have two awesome artists, original artists at that. They write the language, speak the language, both have awesome CD's in their names, all originals on them....and what else........very humble, decent and down to earth gentlemen here, in the taropatch talking and sharing their mana`o to us, the fans!!!
Now that is awesomeness in itself!!!
Agreed. This has been a great topic. Thank you to everyone who has posted and shared their thoughts, experiences and passion for Hawaiian music. It's nice to have varying opinions which were presented respectfully. Mahalo to all you regular 'patchers and to the more recent additions - welcome! I hope you will all post some more. |
Andy |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 11:38:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
There are only about 100 Hawai'i members out of 11,000 in the national Academy.
Actually, closer to 17,000. I'd love to know, however, how many voting members of HARA there are at present - as many of them are likely also eligible for NARAS membership. I've been unable to get an answer to this question for some time. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 11:50:18 AM
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I had heard 17,000 previously myself, but at the end of the Grammy broadcast when they had the closing there was a statement displayed and it said 11,000. I was curious about the difference but maybe it was a typo.
RE: HARA, I've heard varying estimates but no official statement on membership, so I'll not speculate nor repeat the numbers I've heard. Like you, I believe that most would also be eligible for NARAS membership, however, many I know are not because they don't record music that would qualify for the Hawaiian category, and consider it a waste of time to enter in the categories where their music does belong - pop, reggae, rock. Some register when they have eligible release, and then let them lapse. Sad. |
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