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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
 Posted - 02/18/2007 : 09:26:23 AM
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I am one of the individuals who believe that the last 2 Grammy's did not go to the best Hawaiian album of that year. (I do love slack key and strongly believe that it should remain in the runing.)
My take is that the Hawaiian musicians who are as upset as the article indicates should quit sitting around complaining and get together to come up with some ways to spread the exposure to other forms of Hawaiian music on the mainland. Slack key is practically the onlyHawaiian music you can find on a regular basis on the mainland, and that is primarily only on the west coast.
As it stands, a Grammy isn't going to "come to" an Hawaiian musician -- unless that person/s gets exposure on the mainland. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 10:45:33 AM
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It seems like instrumental slack key has become the "crossover" Hawaiian sound on the mainland, whereas traditional Hawaiian (Hawaiian language/uke/guitar/percussion/plus?) appeals to people with a Hawaiian identity. I'm not faulting anyone, just the way it is.
Jesse Tinsley |
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kealiiblaisdell
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 1:50:09 PM
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| Interesting article and topic. As a vocalist myself, it would be under the assumption that I would also be upset. But i'm not. You see i'm also a Ki Ho `alu player and if I wanted to go for a grammy, I would definetly come out with a Ki Ho `alu CD, but that is not my choice. In today's grammys alot of artists are upset at the selection process and the outcome of the awards winner. However, I believe that there is also a language barrier at the Grammys and believe that the comitee feels the same way, sounds beautiful, but "what does it mean". And I strongly disagree with Hapakid (no disrespect), but as you know over the years alot of Hawai`i's identity has been taken away from the Hawaiian people. I found that in a recent trip to the west coast that slack key is very strong and popular, and when I questioned the reason why, the answer was simple. All came back with this answer: "I really can't understand Hawaiian, but I love to listen to it, it's beautiful". You see, I chose to continue to sing and write in my language not for the prestige of an award, more for the continuation of our culture and educating those who don't know or fully understand Hawai`i's people and their beliefs. I also believe if my fellow artists are upset than I suggest they lobby NARAS for another category to be added, like Best Traditional Hawaiian Album or something to that matter. Concerning the NARAS voting members that voted for this years and last years winner (Daniel Ho), from what I gathered the majority of votes came from the West Coast, not Hawai`i. Daniel Ho resides in California and has a great following there. And we all should congratualte him for a wonderful job and CD. He rightfully deserves it and am very proud of him!
If any of Hawai'i's artists are upset, than I believe it's time for them to start doing something about it. Ki Ho`alu is music, a passion for those who play it, I play it and write and sing....it is my passion.
For those in the industry that always say, "It is a business...", than rightfully so it will be and it will show, but for those who do it for the love and passion...will benefit fruitfully.
For those who argue and complain about Ki Ho`alu vs Vocalists and why is it that slack key always wins, I have a problem with it. Because one of Ki Ho`alu's pioneers Gabby Pahinui, is my great uncle. And for those who slander Ki Ho`alu slanders my family name. Ki Ho `alu has opened so many doors for so many people and it upsets me that some of my fellow artists would make such big hu hu over it. Over the years, I seen my fellow artists slander the hoku's because they didn't win, and I seen it at the HMA awards, because they didn't win...and now it's the Grammys. Ki Ho `alu is and always will be apart of my life, so will my writings and singing. And my biggest award is not in a form of a trophy, but in the form of appreciation and smiles from the people themselves, maybe it's time for some of my fellow artists to follow that. As my uncle Cyril always tells me:
P.I.E. (Plan, Implement & Evaluate), than you'll be sucessful.
My opinion only...& big mahalos to all you slackers!
Aloha-
Keali`i Blaisdell |
Edited by - kealiiblaisdell on 02/18/2007 2:31:14 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 4:46:30 PM
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Keali'i,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Someday I would like to meet you - not only a good artist, but a person with some wisdom.
I, too, think it is wrong to put down Daniel, as well as to dismiss the winners as "just slack key." On the other side, I wish something more were being done to educate the Grammy's membership - I know I try the bit I can with our local chapter -- and it is the artists, and perhaps HARA, who need to do that. My gripe with the grammy's isn't that slack key has won. It is that I think there were much better albums that didn't even make it onto the finalists list largely because of the lack of exposure ob the mainland, coupled with ignorance of the traditions on the mainland. But it really is a small gripe. I don't want to blow it our of proportion. 99.9999% of my life I don't even think about the grammy's, or the Na Hoku for that matter. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 7:55:03 PM
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Keali'i,
Thank you for your thoughts. I don't think we disagree in any way.
To be Hawaiian is to live with conflicting emotions about identity, culture, family and religion. It's good to talk about these conflicts (ho'oponopono) so we can find agreement and consensus. In this case, the Taropatch website (and other forums) substitutes for kupuna who would call for ho'oponopono in times of crisis. Although we will continue to talk about this, all the regulars at this site are respectful of the culture no matter what opinions come out. And all want to see traditional Hawaiian music--kiho'alu and other kinds--grow in the future.
Jesse Tinsley |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 02:45:15 AM
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Living in the Cleveland, OH area keeps us so isolated from any type of Hawaiian music or culture. The music doesn't come to you...you must specifically seek it out yourself. That's what we do. The only "concert" venue we have ever had for Hawaiian music was slack key -- Uncle Cyril and Cousin Patrick Landeza. That hunger for the music and culture, though is what led Paul and I to participate in weekend hula workshops. Neither of us dance, and these workshops were too far advanced for beginners like us, but we were happy to pay for the privilege of learning from Keali`i Reichel and Puakea Nogelmeier and this year from Aunti Mapuana and Uncle Kihei DeSilva. Just because we are so hungry for information on the culture and for sharing the aloha. The folks who came to these hula workshops are from all over the world, but they all have one thing in common, they all kiss you and hug you and share so much with you. Last year, Keali`i played a few songs for us at the ho`ike, but he was their as a kumu hula and not a musician and he made that plain to us the first day, that he had to separate the two parts of himself. This year, the ho'ike was not done by recorded music. There was a real live band -- Ale`a, and they were absolutely fantastic. All of the mele they played were to showcase the various halau. Even though most of the lu`au attendees were Cleveland area folks who did not understand a word of Hawaiian other than aloha, through both the music, singing and hula, they were able to understand. When Uncle Kaua Wong danced "Tewe Tewe", everyone had no doubt as to the meaning of the song.
Now, after this rambling dissertation, what I am trying to say is that it appears from my point of view that the ki ho`alu artists make a significant effort to tour the mainland and share their music, whereas "singers" do not. Perhaps it is just that familiarity that garners the Grammy votes.
Any big journey begins with baby steps...aren't these the baby steps? Discussions like this and the article Auntie Maria shared with us will work toward that end.
PS: Auntie Maria -- at the hula workshop, many of the local people asked where they could find an outlet for Hawaiian music, and I, as well as the members of Ale'a (who didn't even bring any CDs to sell), told them to go to mele.com! |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Kawehipulamahia
Aloha
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 03:49:50 AM
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I'm sorry wanda, but I strongly disagree. Singers as you call them, do travel to the mainland and it shows up on mele.com as where each performer will be. Ki Ho`alu and Traditional Hawaiian are 2 totally seperate entities. On the mainland, when you mention Hawaiian or Hawaiian songs, folks there tend to think automatically of Paradise, or tiny bubbles or Don Ho...nothing wrong with that, but it's the way Americans were portrayed Hawai`i as being such, until they finally go on a trip to Hawai`i and see it for themselves. As for the Kumu's that do tour, it's because Halau's are growing all over the world and are in need of instruction. Each kumu lives by a rule, if your going to dance hula, do it the right way, I should know, I've danced for 23 years, been in every Hula competiton you can think of. And so they travel to educate as much halau's as they can so those dancers get it right. I mean wouldnt it be a mockery of the hula and to the Hawaiian people when you turn on a TV and see people dancing by swaying there arms and hands in the air and saying it's hula? I know I get pissed! People like Keali`i and Aunty Mapu travel to different locations because they are invited by certain Halau's or dance troupe, not because they decide all of a sudden that one day they will fly to Cleveland or Indiana, lol. I'm pretty sure Ale'a didn't just wake up oneday and said,"Hmmm, I think today we are going to fly to Cleveland and perform there for the people and put on a show". No, they were invited to do so. Same as Patrick Landeza...
I also have to disagree with Keali`i Blaisdell. I believe that the Hawaiian artists should be upset. As you mentioned, slack key is huge on the West Coast therefore, more of a push for slack key or slackers. If any of you disagree, ask Steven Espaniola. He is huge on the West Coast, so where was the support there for him as a Traditional Hawaiian Artist? People mostly associate him for his Ki Ho `alu, not his hawaiian mele's. Just like here in Hawai`i, the dominant music is not Trad. Hawaiian or Ki Ho`alu, it is the Jawaiian genre. Ki Ho `Alu and Jawaiian are killing off the Traditional Hawaiian genre, you may not believe me. But ask any Trad. Hawaiian artist or their distribution companies. Sells numbers don't lie. Everyday, more and more people all over the United States are being fascinated more with the slack key, only because you can associate slack key to any kind of music. You can oneday make it your own and classify as a different genre. How is this you may ask? Well, you can make it sound Country, folk or bluegrass. Therefore losing its Hawaiian root from when you first started to learn, hence the popularity of slack key. And everday more and more of our younger generation here in Hawai`i are being pulled away from our roots because of the jawaiian/reggae genre. It's just facts. Traditional Hawaiian is dying...live in Hawai`i and you'll see what I mean. Not visit for a week or month or so, I mean LIVE here. Look at the faces of our children and our kupuna, and i'll guarantee you will shed a tear and understand the pains of our people and our traditional hawaiian artists. And Wanda, if you think i'm wrong about this, then tell me why here in TP there are more posts about Slack Key then Traditional Hawaiian. If Trad. Hawaiian are such a need and hunger, why not more posts on the subject of Trad, Hawaiian then slack key? Sorry about this, im not trying to upset anyone, im just Hawaiian and this is what I see...
"Mai Hawai`i a Ni`ihau ka matou ia kalokalo nei e mau Hawai`i la i ka pono".
Kawehi
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Edited by - Kawehipulamahia on 02/19/2007 03:58:12 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 05:22:45 AM
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Now, inasmuch as I am not a musician, I may not be speaking with accuracy, but in order for traditional Hawaiian musicians/singers to travel to the mainland, their has to be a demand for the product they present, and it must be economically feasible for them to do so. I have asked Uncle Dennis Kamakahi about coming to the Cleveland area, and he would like to, but he said his booking agent needs to have more venues to make the travel economically advantageous. Just one show in Cleveland would make for a very expensive proposition, for the venue who would host such, and for the artists to bring what they needed in order to do a show. A traditional musician, or any musician for that matter cannot make a living by playing for free at baby lu`au or family kanikapila. I am aware of the popularity of other genre such as Jawaiian. To me that is not different for me, from my background as a country girl from West Virginia. What passes for "country" music nowadays in no way resembles the "country" music I grew up on. Garth Brooks would have been considered "rock-n-roll". I grew up on Grandpa Jones and Carter Family and Bill Monroe, and church songs sung in small congregations without instrumental accompaniment. Back in the late '60's/early '70's when I was a teenager, there was also a "rennaisance" in traditional folk music. Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Kingston Trio, etc., were singing the old songs, the "child ballads", spirituals, etc., while other young folk were more inspired by the Beatles and Rolling Stones. All of which had their afficianados and their detractors. I remember going to a Joan Baez concert for $2.00. Now, those folks play in high school auditoriums and community theaters because there is no market for their types of music, but Phil Collins tickets cost $80 for the cheap seats. I can commiserate with a culture in danger of dying away, since that is what is happening with my culture, as well. People think "hillbillies" are lazy and slow and backward. And they think it is funny when Jed Clampett has the innocence are pureness of heart to be ripe for swindling by the smarter flatlanders.
That is why I try to invest in educating myself about many types of music. I believe music delves deeply into the soul and mind of a culture. That is why I listen to Kindy Sproat and the stories he tells about the mele, accompanying himself only on one `ukulele. Matter of fact, I learned something very intersting about one song Kindy did on the Na Mele Kupuna CD -- U`ilani, written by Lena Machado. Uncle Kihei DeSilva told us that many people thought this song was written for her grandchild, (and this is what Kindy talks story about on his CD) but it really was not, according to Uncle Kihei. It was written sort of "on commission", you might say, for a friend of a friend who had a new grandchild. Kihei has had a big part in co-authoring a book about Lena Machado (sort of biographical)and her songs (sheet music-style) entitled "Songbird of Hawai`i - My Memories of Aunty Lena". Her hainai daughter, Pi`olani Motto worked on this with Kihei. Auntie Lena had no biological children, so therefore, this song could not possibly be about her grandchild.
The point in this once again lengthy tome, is that the culture of any people will die if it is not documented. We need to aid in that documentation. Give a financial donation to the Hawaiian Legacy Foundation, so Tutu Eddie Kamae and his wife Myrna can continue documenting the history; support the Hula Preservation Society; record the old songs, dig up the history of those songs and document that, document the history and manufacturing methods of the clothing and of the foodstuffs, and on and on and on.
Like Eddie Kamae said in his film "Sons of Hawai`i", the songs will die if they are not sung. His kumu, Kawena Pukui told him "himeni".
The problem is much more broad than who won a Grammy award. To me that is the least of it, but it may be the start of something bigger more important, depending on how those who CAN influence it do so.
This forum is called "Taro Patch" because of the connection to ki ho`alu, but people who contribute to this forum have much more to share with us than just the love of ki ho`alu or the physical and technical methods of playing such music. It is a wonderful way to share the mana`o. I appreciate it. Mahalo to those who do share, and mahalo to those who listen and take to heart the many subjects discussed here. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 02/19/2007 06:12:21 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 05:44:19 AM
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Aloha no e Kawehi,
Just one simple point about this Taropatch.net of ours. It was initially set up to be exclusively about, and promote, ki ho`alu. There was no other place in the world that did that, so that was its original intent. And its existence was very dicey in the beginning; it was not at all clear that it would or could survive. I can remember thinking up and creating, by request, semi-technical postings about ki ho`alu, just so there would be something that would be posted at all. But, fortunately, it grew, with the help of some key people, and became sort of the central meeting place for people with deep interest in Hawaiian culture. Accordingly, it began to expand to include more and more areas of interest. It is wonderful that it continues to be a home for more and more truly Hawaiian genres. It is also true that many here *do*, and *have done* "traditional" Hawaiian music and hula and oli and `olelo. Many of us support many aspects of Hawaiian culture in many ways; with our time, effort, and, yes, money to deserving causes. But, in a pono way, we never, or rarely talk about it. And, as for living in Hawai`i, that is a dream for most of us that will never be attainable for simple economic reasons. The same economic reasons that made the West Coast (and much of the rest of moku honua) the refuge of the Hawaiian diaspora.
So, the bottom line is that the preponderance of posts here about ki ho`alu is because of historical reasons; it means nothing about our deep and abiding concern for traditional Hawaiian culture. Your recent appearance (and the recent appearance of others like you) is truly important and welcome. I only hope that you will continue to contribute your mana`o (on many things) to our `ohana.
Me ke aloha pumehana,
Reid |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 06:25:01 AM
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Kawehi -
As Reid so kindly put it, this site began for ki ho'alu support. I doubt anyone even knows about it without knowing and appreciating a good deal of the rest of the Hawaiian scene. Although it is not required, most here post a bio and have contact information, and many also include their name and location. I find it troubling that you have chosen to be critical without sharing any of your personal information, and not introducing yourself.
I'm a west-coast haole who grew up at the beach surfing from the time I could sturdily stand, and learning both ukulele and hula in grammar school. For at least a century there has been a constant flow both ways of culture and respect. Right after WWII there was an even bigger influx of Hawaiians of many races who settled here and brought the culture. Many parts of it including the music and dance are alive and well, appreciated and respected. And I would guess that most who share the music are not full-blooded ethnically Hawaiian, wherever they were born, live, or were raised. Personally, I don't think it's important. So if the rules for the awards are followed, then the let chips fall where they may.
And by the way Raymond, it was too bad that you had a gig when I was up there in September. That is when I met both Steve Espaniola and Keali'i Blaisdell. Both shared incredibly beautiful music from their hearts and souls.
So for any of you who choose to lurk, please get to know us - we are very different in so many ways, and fiercely the same in a few. We love the music; we want to share; we try hard to live with aloha.
nancy cook
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 07:26:28 AM
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Keali'i,
Are you related to Coach Ane at Punhou HS? I think his mom was a Blaisdell (daughter of former Mayor Blaisdell). |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 08:14:09 AM
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Links to sites mentioned above:
Hawaiian Legacy Foundation - Eddie & Myrna Kamae
http://www.hawaiianlegacy.com/
Hula Preservation Society
http://www.hulapreservation.org/ |
Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 08:26:40 AM
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Sitting up here, monolingual in Minnesota, I have at best a rooting interest in the--what? tensions? sibling rivalry?--set off by the Grammy Awards; and I certainly have no business advising anyone on how they should feel about the ways their culture connects to the rest of the world, let alone how they should arrange things in their own home. But I can report on what the situation looks like from this side, where it is quite a challenge to get a view of any other culture, reasonably undistorted by commercialism or stereotyping or shoddy (or non-existent) history or affinity-group politics.
The Grammys clearly reflect what the voting membership (overwhelmingly non-Hawaiian mainlanders) can see and absorb of Hawaiian music, and that means what is accessible in both the commercial and cultural senses--people are not going to vote for what they can't find, *and* what they would not understand well if they could. I would wager a non-trivial sum that the overwhelming majority of non-Hawaiian mainlanders (including the subset of Grammy voters) got their sense of what non-hapa-haole Hawaiian music sounds like from either slack key or (more recently) Brother Iz. Not from the historical/ethnographic recordings of chant and hula (which were always available if not necessarily stocked at the local mall), and not even from strongly-rooted popular singers like Lena Machado, but from music that showed up in the stores *and* that they could enjoy even if they couldn't understand the words. Before Iz got noticed, that meant, overwhelmingly, slack key, and mostly Dancing Cat slack key at that. (Guitar nerds had found their way to Gabby a decade or so earlier, but guitar nerds are not a strong force in Grammy-land.) Despite Dancing Cat's artificial emphasis on the soloist, nearly every album included plenty of singing, with nice explanatory notes, and every haole guitar nerd I encountered loved it all, even though our Hawaiian was limited to "aloha," "mahalo," "hana hou," and (for the advanced students) "ha`ina `ia mai ana ka puana." Slack key was our gateway to the rest of Hawaiian music, and the music has been the gateway to Hawaiian culture and history in general. (Russell's Theory of Cultural Interchange: try the music and the food and everything else will follow.)
So as lovely as it would be for mainstream mainlanders to recognize a wider range of Hawaiian music, it's going to take time--there are interesting parallels with other "exotic" traditions, such as gypsy jazz, klezmer, and tango, and in each case there have been questions of authenticity, of watering-down, of commercializing, of outsiders not really understanding the real thing. (It even happens to food--how long has it taken for authentically hot Thai or Indian food to get accepted in, say, Minnesota? As for poi--don't even ask.)
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Ianui
Lokahi
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 08:50:47 AM
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Kawehipulamahia
Slack Key is popular on the West Coast because for the last 5 years it was promoted in several ways. It became organized through grass roots organizations, what few concerts there were, were taken out of some pretty dismal drink hustling bar type venues, and put where people could actually see the artist and hear the music. A series of new venues were established that made it convenient for people to attend, A higher standard was set and TARO PATCH was the coconut wireless that brought it all together.
It didn't just happen. Successes in one area led to interest in another which created more successes and continued growth. It happened with Slack Key because that was our interest and no one from the island or the mainland was was doing anything with it. So we did. I chuckle when I read these posts and am amazed when I think how far we've come in the past 5 years.
But I do believe you are correct in many ways about singing and other traditional Hawaiian music. Can it be as popular as Slack key? Can the artist come to the mainland and have successful concerts. I believe they can but both Slack Key and the singers have to make a change. There has to be an integration of a sort and the traditional methodology of presentation just has to change for the mainland audience. Otherwise you are correct. They are not going to come and sit for an hour and listen to songs in a language they don't understand a word of. No matter how well a person sings. In other words you can't just show up and sing anymore.
I have developed some new production values which I believe are important in having any sort of mainland success. You are welcome to hear them and use what you think best if any. |
Edited by - Ianui on 02/19/2007 08:52:20 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2007 : 09:59:28 AM
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You know, there are exceptions, unusual as they may be, to the situation that you both describe, Russell and Don. Wolftrap for one. In early Fall, Sarah and I, and Debbie (Island Boo) and her mom, flew down to Tyson's Corner, VA outside DC, to see (and listen to) Ledward, Keal`i Reichel, and Halau o Kekuhi (the Kanaka`ole/Kanahele `ohana's halau). There was a whole lotta singing in Hawaiian and major hula goin' on. Moreover, there were THOUSANDS of people there, including kids. There were traffic jams going in and out. It started out with an introductory multimedia show that set the cultural and physical background of the program and it segued ingeniously from Led on film walking forward, to Led on stage walking forward. And, Ledward and slack key got the least time on stage. The show was dominated by Keali`i singing, always in Hawaiian, and he sang (and his band played) in several styles, and the halau who capped it off with 45 *solid* minutes - i.e., without pause - of chanting, dancing and percussion instrumentation. The audience was blown away. The audience was dominantly haole and, although I was aware of some military families who had been stationed at one time or another in the Islands, most had only tourist notions of Hawaiiana (to use Auntie Nona's word).
BTW Russell, we actually have poi on menus in New Haven, although it is labeled as "taro root". Thai restaurants here are fighting each other for attention, there are authentic Japanese, Vietnamese and Maylay restaurants, I shop at a Chinese food store for akule and head-on wild shrimp many Thursdays and I am the only English speaker except for the cashier, and last night I cooked Kashmiri lamb kabobs,dhabay kay chanay (chickpeas in tea, tomatoes, veggies and spices), katchumber raita, and nan. New Haven is way smaller than most Minnesota cities. Come and visit some time.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 02/19/2007 10:35:27 AM |
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