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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2007 : 11:17:45 AM
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Amen.
Larry |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 11:29:31 AM
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This has been an uncomfortable subject for me, because I went to high school on Oahu. This should be a reality check for both Hawaiians and haoles alike. Let me speak as a Hawaiian born haole...I am not looking for Hawaiian/Haole conflict or "education" on this site. Rather, I am trying to get away from it. I understand the polyanna effect that Hawaii can have on some of us and if I had to guess, that could be the reason for this whole issue.
There is hostility under the surface in many Hawaiians and other brown skinned races in Hawaii. I use the profile name of Haole boy here because a good friend used to call me that but I am aware that it has mostly negative connotations. Believe me, if I am called haole boy by a stranger in Hawaii, I would be looking at routes and options.
I have heard pro golfers proudly say they are "South African". I admit that when I hear it, I frown and mumble below my breath. It takes way more than just being born somewhere--it also takes ancestry. For some reason brown skin races like Japanese and Philipino can become Hawaiin, but only on rare occations will it be enough for a white person. That's the reality the way I see it. I do not have much of a problem with it either.
I was born and raised in Hawaii but I know better that to claim I am Hawaiian. I would feel rediculous saying it. I do, however, staked a claim to Hawaii that I rightly deserve...Hawaii is my homeland. Now please let me go back to sleep...and don't wake me up too often. |
Bob |
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kealiiblaisdell
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 12:40:06 PM
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I can see that most here, saw this AS material explaning the REASONS why Hawaiians are so upset and angered. And it angered some of you greatly. Now, you know how we feel. Because I listed the faults of the United States and those of caucasian ancestry, you too also got upset and posted it clearly and some posted it with a vengence, mocking some of our traditions of our Ali`i. Now, did it hurt you? Did it make you angry? Did you have a little hate for me? Did you find it racist? Did you see me as a Haole hater?
You see, sometimes a person has to take that step and cross some boundries to make a clear and present statement, to voice it with the truth, and the truth hurts. For so long Hawaiians have been angry, and alot of people didn't understand why.
Alot of you, by your replies to my post were angry and shocked from what you read. SOME of you actually saw this with an open mind and understood the Hawaiians anger, answering some of the questions that went unanswered for so long. When it comes to Hawaiian issues, no one will listen. When Hawaiians fight back, no one will help. When Hawaiians speak their voices, no one will hear. But, when an educated Hawaiian comes along and speaks the truth, everyone gets angry.
Now, to those who got upset and very angry and mocked our traditions. All you did was read, and get upset. All you did was read the surface of things and made up your minds and already had passed judgement which are the very things that makes you what you really are....Haole (ONLY SOME). And yes, of course i'm not going to sit idley and have you mock my culture! But the things I said angered you, didn't it? It pissed some of you off right? Well hello? Now you can see what I was trying to say! And now you know EXACTLY how the Hawaiian feel! How would you like it if someone foreign invaded your land and took the very place you call home away? It almost happened. Japan could of easily marched into the United States and easily taken it away from you. True? I mean, America and probably some of you, got upset at the Japanese for annihilating the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, and till today, there still is alot of hate towards the Japanese, am I right? Same goes for 9-11, after we were atttacked, tell me this...how many people of middle eastern descent were beaten, kidnapped and even killed because of what happened here in the United States? One of my best friends died due to beatings to his face...he was only 28 at the time, he had 2 kids and a wife and he was of Afghan ethnicity. He was at work, when 4 caucasian men grabbed him, pulled him outside and beat him to death, his wife told police and told me that even some women jumped in and joined the fracas kicking him to his face. They were calling him a terrorist, and told him this is America, their home, not his. The weird thing about this, he was born and raised in Hawai`i, not in Afghanistan...he died for NOTHING!
The whole point...
The only time some of you may get angry and spew mockery is when others point out the wrongs truthfully. When we talk bad about your race, you comeback with full force and cut us down. When anyone points the truth out to you and lists the reasons of how America was founded on, you rightfully defend it so, and some of you actually are proud of it!
From years past and till today, lands are continuing to be taken away from our people, and our people continues to struggle to regain what was rightfully ours. Is your land that you live on being taken away? No...you don't know how the Hawaiians feel because it didn't happen to you.
Your anger and mockery only reflects those of the Hawaiian People and how they feel and how they are angry.
READ what I post...all it was, was an explanation to why the Hawaiian People are so angry, that's all. And some of you took it out of context by reading only the surface and automatically passed judgment on me and the Hawaiian People. Some of you even went as far as mocking our Ali`i and our traditions, for what? Telling the truth? I too know uncle Dennis, Uncle George, the Pahinui's (Ohana) and others...and if they were to all read this, they would agree with my words.
Aloha doesn't come freely. In Hawai`i, it is earned among our people. "Aloha", is a word that is so widely used since long ago and over many many years the media took the word and used it for promotional purposes as a way to make some profit. The word "Aloha" comes at a cost that does not benefit the Hawaiian People in anyway, shape or form. I seen it with my own eyes, have any of you? Can you really tell the Hawaiians that you TRULY understand what they are going through? Yes, there was the Clinton apology bill, and I too have read it, but it didn't undo the damage that was already done. Actions speak louder than wordsSo, is Aloha skin deep? No. I share it everywhere I go, but some of you automatically judged me from my posts when all I did was explain to you all why Hawaiians are so angry.
I was fully aware of what I was getting myself into before I made these posts. And if anyone of you never ever like me anymore or even boycott my music...well then so be it. But, atleast I stood up for my own, and did something about it, voiced it and responded. Knowing fully the consequences and verbal remarks that will follow this issue comes with the territory...after all Martin Luther King Jr. did the same thing, and got the same response.
"Native Hawaiians, who voices the truth and concerns of their people, will have an easier time voicing it to audience of trees"
Guess who wrote this....
I did.
Keali`i
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Edited by - kealiiblaisdell on 02/23/2007 1:38:20 PM |
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hawaiianmusiclover06
`Olu`olu
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 12:55:18 PM
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Keali'i, mahalo nui for sharing your mana'o on this subject matter. I almost cried reading your last post. Thank you for showing your "Aloha" and your love to other Taro patchers here. E malama pono, ke akua pu.
Alana :) |
Aloha Kakou, maluhia a me aloha mau loa (Hello everyone, peace and love forever) |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 2:27:38 PM
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Keali'i,
I want you to know that I read your posts carefulloy and took what you had to say very seriously. One of the reasons for my doing so was that I respect the work you are doing, at least that of which I know, in your music and recordings. The other reason is that I am painfully aware that I don't know an awful lot about lots of things.
There are two things that I read in your posts that did get me upset, and still do. 1) My family were the "victims" of prejudice for generations. I myself was beaten up on a few occasions because of the color of my skin. (My parents did their best to keep our family in an integrated neighborhood until it just got too dangerous for us.) I get upset when people lump all Caucasians together and make us the enemy. That is no different from lumping all Afghans together, all Japanese, all islanders, etc. Caucasians are as different as island people, as any people. And prejudice is prejudice no matter what side it comes from, and all that crap just perpetuates the problems. I am also upset by the tone and the wisecracks directed at you. These cycles of anger and hatred are so wrong and need to stop. The violence has to stop and the only way it can stop is for individual people stopping it in their lives and doing what they can to convince others to stop it. Do you think the civil rights movement would have made the impact it did if Dr. King and others were not able to get lots of non-black people to join the struggle? Dr. King raised the awareness and moral understanding of people of all races. The other reason is this: 2) Again, I'm not accusing you of this, your actions will show anyone you are not "guilty" of this. I am, however, getting tired of people just getting angry and not working to change things. It's a cop out. That Hawaiian culture is in a critical state seems pretty obvious. Bitching about the evils caucasians rain down on you isn't going to do one thing to change it. And venting emotions, while somnetimes necessary, robs them of their power to change things. The change is what is needed now and for the future. |
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kealiiblaisdell
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 2:51:45 PM
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Thank You Raymond...i'm very glad that you saw what I was trying to do. It is a touchy subject, nevertheless, it must be made known. As in a post i made recently, I DON'T CONDONE VIOLENCE AND RACISIM, TO ANYONE WHO USES HO`OHUI`AINA AS AN EXCUSE. And I have also mentioned, that I am ashamed to be Hawaiian when Hawaiians use this topic to spew anger and violence. Someone wanted to know the reasons why, and rightfully so, I told the truth, knowingly that it and I would face tremendous amount of criticism.
Again, I apologize to any of you who have met violence in Hawai`i. I don't condone it, never participated in it and never even tought of it....
Call it...upbringing.
Keali`i |
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hawaiianmusiclover06
`Olu`olu
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 3:51:45 PM
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Keali'i, I also saw what you were trying to say. Thank you again for educating all of us. Mahalo for your mana'o! Eh, when you going to e-mail me back. Talk to you later. A hui hou! Keep on posting! By the way I like your quote.
Alana :) |
Aloha Kakou, maluhia a me aloha mau loa (Hello everyone, peace and love forever) |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 4:18:17 PM
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As I understand the history, Queen Lilli'u allowed the overthrow of the monarchy to prevent the inevitable loss of her peoples' lives. Hawai'i was not a military society, there were only police. Certain that the U.S. Government would restore the monarchy to power, she did what would prevent the loss of lives on both sides.I have to admire her for that. She was unable to convince our government to help., and the overthrow stood. But to dismiss this as 'inevitable' in the face of Russian or other agression is either uninformed,naiive, or just a cop out from someone who doesn't want to know the truth. The mistake Hawai''s ruler's made was when they chose the U.S. to ally their country with, instead of Great Brittain. Neither Russia nor the US would have tampered, and a British people,enamoured of their own monarchy, would not have allowed even their own leaders to act in such a manner. Japan,obviously, would have been so rash. Perhaps more than they proved to have been. But history has shown how that ended.
I don't have an answer;Wanda only wanted to know what we, as concerned individuals, could do in our small way to make right. I'm not sure any one can, at this late date. But the two of us, in our small way, feel the shame of having had such a corruption of justice brought about by our own leaders, assisted by the apathy of the American people. |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 5:50:47 PM
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| Maybe I misread what the British did in India? |
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MentoBuggah
Aloha
22 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 5:52:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
But to dismiss this as 'inevitable' in the face of Russian or other agression is either uninformed,naiive, or just a cop out from someone who doesn't want to know the truth. Neither Russia nor the US would have tampered, and a British people,enamoured of their own monarchy, would not have allowed even their own leaders to act in such a manner.
I'll accept irreverant, wisecracking, mocking, and angry, but not uninformed. If you research this, as I did, you'll find some interesting history involving a deal between Schaffer and the King of Kauai in 1816 (Fort Elizabeth.) Also look up Heihachirotogo and Lord George Paulet.
I did not make up the Kapu about stepping in an Ali'i's shadow. It was not meant to be mocking, only to point out that it is not only 'white devils' responsible for the oppression of Hawaiians. But if it was taken that way, so be it. Like Blaisdell said, sometimes the truth hurts.
Does anybody respect Kamehameha III any less because he used Western weapons against his enemies? |
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Kawehipulamahia
Aloha
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 8:23:14 PM
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Aloha E Keali`i-
Wow, been gone and I come back to this, lol...first of all, I read everything that Keali`i has posted and there is not one ounce of him degrading or being racist at all towards anyone (except mentohead). Mentohead, your last post is so funny...what does Dr. Scahffer and King Kamuali`i have anything to do with this post. First off, It was an accord between Kamuali`i & Schaffer about re-taking Hawai`i back from Kamehameha and the deal was, if sucessful, Schaffer would receive half of O`ahu....so what does that have to do with anything about why we Hawaiians are so angry towards the United States? Haha, nothing, absolutly nothing at all...also, If you were to step into the shadow of an ali`i...you will not drown, you'd just be clubbed to death with most likely a la`au palau or more notiably the lei o
mano. Also, what business did you have in Kalihi in the first place with all those "ice heads"...oh...unless you were there to buy ice...
Mentohead....You are a very bitter man who only sees what you want to see, and cannot or will not see past the color of your own skin. You pass judgment on another man who truly loves all people and despite knowing how much criticism he will get from a post like this to explain why we hawaiians are so upset and angry, you turn this into a battle of mockery and ugliness. Your true colors show who you are. You mock those who are more knowledgable than you and make yourself out to be the victim of it all...
You are the reason why Hawaiians are angry, you are the reason why caucasions get those dirty looks...
Mentohead, you are what Haole truly means...
no believe everything you read in the history books braddah, history made Custer out to be a hero right HA!!! He was a murderer...and good job on your internet research...
If you comeback with one ugly post, I going fight back more hard, i'm a tita from Nanakuli brah, so do your research on dat!
Aloha-
Kawehi |
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JeffC
Lokahi
USA
189 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 9:03:47 PM
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This is a very important issue, and one that deserves and needs to be aired out, as few positive changes are made without communication.
I read Keali`i's first post yesterday before anyone else had responded. I read it carefully. I found myself rankled enough that I spent part of last night wide awake thinking about it. I was not angered, but I was saddened and concerned. And I was defensive.
Raymond encapsulated my feelings pretty well a couple of posts up:
"I get upset when people lump all Caucasians together and make us the enemy. That is no different from lumping all Afghans together, all Japanese, all islanders, etc. Caucasians are as different as island people, as any people. And prejudice is prejudice no matter what side it comes from..."
It's true that most of the imperialists of the past several centuries have been Caucasian, but it is not true that all peoples that were subjugated or had their lands or livelihoods taken away have been people of color. Just because someone is white doesn't mean that their ancestors did not suffer similar injustices to those of Hawaiians and other peoples of color. I am Caucasian, but my ancestors were Irish, Scots, and Poles. These peoples were not priveleged or powerful imperialists, and many thousands of them were obliged to leave their homelands because their lives and livelihoods were being taken away.
Lumping all modern-day white-skinned people together and vilifying them as responsible for the injustices of the past is racial profiling. It is not justified and does not move any of us closer to right or justice.
Being informed (educated) about history is important and I respect Keali`i for his thoughts and his courage. Imperialism and the arrogance that makes any culture assume that theirs is better than any other is deplorable and it carries ever more dangerous consequences. My hope is that we as humans can in the near future get over the need blame and harbor hatred for entire races or ethnicities for the injustices wrought by the few. It will only serve to keep us divided in the quest for justice.
Aloha |
Jeff
Making Trout Country safe for Slack Key! |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 9:45:12 PM
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| Furthermore, I would'nt touch this subject with a ten foot guitar string. What's the point? To educate? Educate who? Educate me? I visit this websight to learn about music and make friends with people that share a common interest. Thanks anyway everyone, your postings were very entertaining. Sometimes I wonder, if the Hawaiians were to get everything they wanted and became a nation state would their hate and anger cease? Would the "Haoles" (foreigners) guilt cease? Wanna jam some "Kihoalu" and create some magic together or wanna jam some "Kihoalu" and see who's better. Got to live Aloha. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2007 : 10:08:21 PM
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I should have stayed out, too. Too late!
Malama pono,
Jesse Tinsley |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 05:42:42 AM
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This has been a hot topic and I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and personal experiences. Race is a very personal thing that can ignite strong feelings, both good and bad.
Discussions involving race are tough. We can point to terrible injustices throughout history but cannot change the color of our skin. Discussion is very healthy and a good thing despite the inherent difficulties.
Constructive discussion is welcome but it's gotten way too personal. I'm going to lock this topic. |
Andy |
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Topic Locked
