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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 02/25/2007 : 06:35:16 AM
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Sarah has lately been composing in D, because it suits the range of her voice very well. She had been modulating from G to D using Taropatch with some success - the intro, pa`ani and ending in G and the vocal backup and vamps in D.
But, now we are trying out D Wahine (DADF#AC#) with some success (we heard George Kahumoku play in it and liked it a lot), but we need a little boost from our friends out there (here actually :-) who play in D tunings. I know Terry does and maybe some others of you do, too.
Here is what we know now:
There seems to be some psychoacoustic effect that makes the lowest D sound lower than the lowest D in Open G. I think that is because the interval from D to A on the 6 and 5 strings is 2 semitones (one note) wider than in Taropatch. Or am I just crazy?
I think I remember talking to Terry about the string intervals being just like Taro Patch in some D tuning - just down 1 string from 2 to 6. But, I don't recall which that was or how to use that to advantage. It doesn't seem to be true in this tuning. Am I counting wrong? Neither do we know how to involve the 1st string when we do that. Any hints?
The basic A7 to G vamp, that is the analogue of the Open G D7 to G vamp, is pretty simple, using a hammer-on from C# to D on the 1st sting, 1st fret. Actually, you never need to move out of first position. Are there any other neat vamps that you know about?
We know where the I, IV, V and V7 chords are. Are there any more really interesting chords to use, in much the same way that Keola finds interesting sounds in his C, or Ozzie finds interesting sounds in G?
We know where the 3rds and 6ths are. The very top 3rds (on strings 1 and 2) require a bit of retraining because they are "backwards". That is, the 1st string notes are toward the headstock and the 2nd string notes are towards the bridge. The top 6ths are pretty straightforward, but also require retraining. The middle 3rds (strings 4 and 3) are almost like those in Open G, so that is OK, but the middle 6ths on 4 and 2 are way different. Are we using the wrong strings for any of these?
Bass picking patterns seem, at first glance, to be little problem, but we are not sure. The tonic is on 6 and 4 and the 5th is on the 5th string. It seems a little boring to be using drone octave's for D and A E for the A or A7 chords. Any good variations that you know of?
OK, I'll stop now. But a leg up would be much appreciated.
...Reid
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 06:44:21 AM
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Oh Yeah,
We have George's DVD and are learning from that, but we need to study it more.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 02/25/2007 06:44:44 AM |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 07:28:07 AM
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Hi Reid & Sarah,
Funny, this was the first tuning that I learned and then I got lost along the way.
I was just covering D Wahine with my advanced class for their two concerts this semester.. Two of the pieces they will do will be "Maika‘i Waimea" & "The Rocking Chair Hula". Both are strophic and easy to play. Actually, I really should say that I'm hoping they will do these two songs in the concerts because I give them a choice of repertoire. Depends how receptive they are to it. You can play every song in any tuning
I just woke up and haven't had my coffee or breakfast yet. I'll get back to you within the hour.
PM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 08:29:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
...
I think I remember talking to Terry about the string intervals being just like Taro Patch in some D tuning - just down 1 string from 2 to 6. But, I don't recall which that was or how to use that to advantage. It doesn't seem to be true in this tuning. Am I counting wrong? Neither do we know how to involve the 1st string when we do that. Any hints?
...
Open D is often described as Open G moved one string toward the bass.
Open G - V I V I III V
Open D - I V I III V I
Your D Wahine just drops the first string to a Maj7.
In Taropatch we play I V (G D, 5th string 4th string) for the bass. In D try I V (D A, 6th string 5th string).
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
Edited by - Fran Guidry on 02/25/2007 08:31:21 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 11:17:18 AM
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Thanks Fran. I was counting intervals wrong this time - I was going in the wrong direction. Earlier when talking to Chunk, I did it correctly. Chalk it up to the brain fog I have because of a med I am taking - or just stupidity. You are perfectly right. And, I don't know why we missed the D A bass sequence, because we did that A D sequence (5th, 4th string).
Earlier this afternoon, Sarah composed a couple of pa`ani phrases by doing the standard barre at the 5th fret (getting G7) and then twiddling at the 6th and 7th frets with her little finger. It was a lovely variation on her melody. And she had room to go back to the nut for other phrases.
We love 7th (minor, I guess) chords and we always thought that they had been underutilized in tunings like Double Slack. You can get very jazzy sounds easily and you don't *only* have to use them to hammer back to the tonic.
...Reid
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 1:07:54 PM
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The defining note in wahine tunings is a Maj7, the naturally occurring seventh in the major scale, 1/2 step below the tonic. A minor7 is a chord with a minor 3rd and a dominant 7th, the note one whole step below the root of the chord.
Dmajor7 = D F# A C#
Dminor7 = D F A C
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 03:45:23 AM
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Fran, you are keeping me on the right path. Of course! - the whole tuning is called D Major 7th, with C# in the D scale, just as F# is in both G an D scales. So, moving a semitone back to C gives the minor chord (in this scale). I just gotta repeat that mantra.
...Reid
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 05:33:42 AM
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Fran, thanks for lending a hand here with D Wahine. It certainly is a pretty tuning, so I am having fun working with it. I've found both left and right hands have to be retrained ;-) and my small theoretical understanding of minors and 7ths and so on is being stretched as well.
Peter, I was intrigued that you said this was the first tuning that you learned.
aloha,
Sarah |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 4:03:52 PM
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Another plus for D wahine we discovered, exactly 3 minutes ago, is that you can play *any* scale in a major key within 2 frets (with a barre and a very easy stretch of your other fingers - and no barre in D). Given that one of the supposed attractions of "Standard" tuning is that you can do the same thing within 3 frets, D wahine is the current champ. Neato! Of course, "Standard" is higher in pitch, if you need that, But we would just retune, of course. This means that you can play along with Kevin dem at Waihe`e and never retune :-) Moreover, Sarah found out that the beginning of Uncle Ray's long rubato intro to Punahele turns into just a simple strum in this tuning, and the latter part is almost as simple. Amazing.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 02/28/2007 03:26:08 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 03:15:01 AM
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Sarah and Reid:
I encourage you to create a myspace account and post some of your songs.
Bob |
Bob |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 03:41:13 AM
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Bob, I appreciate the encouragement. We have been recording, and now have about 6 or 7 in the can and another 4 waiting for finishing up editing and an overdub. We also had the idea for about another half dozen. But our notion was to cut a limited CD for family and friends. That way we could avoid any legal issues. I suppose we could put the originals and traditionals and those for which we have explicit permission on the web. But, to tell the truth, "social" sites such as myspace, scare the bejeezus out of us, and I don't like, at all, the wide self promotion and backscratching that seems to be its main purpose. That just ain't us. One alternative we might think of is to set up our own web page. Sarah is an experienced web site designer and builder and made a sweet one for our seriously good guitar playing friends, and one for selling my Avanti. (The latter was really painful to do :-( So, maybe we do that, and keep it simple. We'll talk it over.
Thanks again.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 02/28/2007 03:42:09 AM |
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Davey
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 07:26:00 AM
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reid:
Apologies in advance if this info is posted elsewhere -- what kind of rig are you using to record? As an old analog studio guy gone digital myself, I'm always interested in what other folks are up to in recording land.
My wife and I also compose and perform together, as well as record. Got one of our best efforts down the other night simply taking the balanced inputs out of our PA mixer and going live right into our little Roland 2480-CD. Kind of a wake-up call to remember that great live energy is sometimes limited (literally and figuratively) when I start obsessing during the multitracking process.
Davey |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 08:05:42 AM
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Davey, Lots of this info is discussed in Da Kine Music Gear subforum, but I never said what I finally used: 2 AKG 300Bs and sometimes an AT AE 5100 mid-size front address condenser (all mid priced that I can afford). For the guitar, I also track the pickup, through a Baggs PADI, mostly for the low end clarity. Everything goes into a Mackie 1202 VLZ PRO (mostly for preamps and level setting) and then out to an Echo Layla 3G and into Adobe Audition. Mostly 3 tracks for the guitar and sometimes vox overdubbed on another track or, if Sarah really wants to sing at the same time she plays, total 4 or 5 tracks at once (and I deal with the mic bleed - but sometimes bleed helps). Everything I have and do is on the basis of advice from Lawrence, Mark, and Dave Nye. My own faults are due to me. I have learned lots just from screwing up. In Audition, I almost never add anything, I always take out things with parametric or scientific filters, noise reduction, etc. and I use very gentle compression sometimes and High Limiting for normalization. Also, I use gentle volume envelopes to emphasize one thing or another. Actually I don't really do too much in Audition and try to get the best initial tracks we can. Still not as good as the guys I mentioned, though. And, as you mentioned, the performance is everything.
...Reid |
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Davey
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 08:23:11 AM
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You nailed it with the comment "try to get the best initial tracks I can."
Makes me think back on the cats who were doing mono takes straight to 2-inch tape. Talk about killer sound -- yikes! Mixing boards? Nah, just have people stand closer or move farther from the mic. Same diff. :) |
Edited by - Davey on 02/28/2007 08:23:37 AM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 05:28:23 AM
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| D Wahine was the first slack tuning I heard. A was working briefly with a kid from Hilo and he showed it to me. A year later I learned taropatch. This tuning allows for some neat jazzy licks. Fooling around with it can let you imitate a steel a bit. Barre the 3 high strings at the 5th fret-D6! Pull the barre down 2 frets, D9! That's why mauna loa and wahine tunings were influential on steel. |
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