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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2007 : 09:33:28 AM
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Lots of people on other boards have discussed their views on differentiating between Hawaiian music and non-Hawaiian music. My way of differentiating between the two is that Hawaiian music is music that is solely in the Hawaiian language. Reggae, Jawaiian, hapa haole, etc. are all examples of what I call non-Hawaiian music, despite the fact that the artists who do those genres are from Hawai'i Nei.
You?
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He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:08:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Hawaiian music is music that is solely in the Hawaiian language.
So that leaves out ki ho`alu instrumentals then? |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:08:56 AM
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| By your definition a lot of slack key wouldn't qualify as Hawaiian since it's instrumental. I don't think you'll find an easy answer to your question...there have been several raging debates in the forums solely on what constitutes slack key. (And none of them have been settled!) |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:49:26 AM
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For me there's a variety of Hawaiian music. I guess though if you want truly original Hawaiian music you'd have to go back to chants. I'm guessing the first non-vocal instruments were percussion. Don't know when the nose flute came or when the conch shell may have been added to a song. Then when the Europeans/Paniolos brought in string instruments (and again when was piano introduced) you have many of the mele that may now be performed with hula. And when Hawaiian music made a foothold in the mainland, the hapa haole music started. (Disclaimer: Not a true musical historian so I'm W.A.G.-ing) My first contemporary Hawaiian music was in the 70's with the Beamers, C&K, Kalapana and Peter Moon Band, (oh and I forgot earlier there was Don Ho on TV and too some guy name Elvis with some movie, too.) I never truly embraced Reggae, so Jawaiian wasn't a big hit with me, but there's always that exception with a particular song. And while in Hawaii on cable 16 saw a trio of ladies singing and adding a bit Rap. What's really terrific is that musicians today are adding new mele -- both Hawaiian and hapa haole. And as previously mentioned this includes slack key and ukulele instrumentals with that sound that reminds you of Hawaii. So I guess any mele that has that "Hawaiian" musical sound or lyrics pertainning to Hawaii is Hawaiian music for me.
Aloha,
Genaro |
Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 11:12:21 AM
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| After thinking about this a little, my definition would be any style of music that has its primary roots in Hawaii (specifically the Hawaiian culture). Slack key would obviously fall into this category, while hapa haole would not since its roots are in Tin Pan Alley regardless of its inspiration. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1581 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 12:09:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Lots of people on other boards have discussed their views on differentiating between Hawaiian music and non-Hawaiian music. My way of differentiating between the two is that Hawaiian music is music that is solely in the Hawaiian language. ... <snippage>
I almost never enter into these debates, but I'd like to point out that your definition eliminates "Aloha `Oe" and "Kaula `Ili."
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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Edited by - Fran Guidry on 05/08/2007 12:10:36 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 1:33:22 PM
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| There is a very good booklet put out by the Bishop Museum that discusses influences on hawaiian music through its history. I found it very informative and it certainly broadened by views on what constitutes "Hawaiian" music. Definitely worth a read. (It's short - doesn't take long.) |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 1:53:59 PM
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There's also a rare copy of "Hawaiian Music and Musicians" currently available on eBay for a reasonable (for this book) price. I posted the link here in case anyone's interested:
http://www.taropatch.net/forum/classdetail.asp?id=98 |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 2:09:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
hapa haole would not since its roots are in Tin Pan Alley regardless of its inspiration.
Whereas I would include it, since many hapa-haole songs were written by Hawai`i residents, performing with bands made up of Hawai`i residents, in venues in Hawai`i. Even today's musicians in Hawai`i are recognizing the place of hapa-haole music in the timeline of "Hawaiian music," with a festival celebrating it.
But that's just me - not saying you're wrong or right in your definition. I've found that anytime you try to make clear labels for or box in a kind of music to a specific definition, someone will ALWAYS scribble on your label, or makes the sides of your box go slack (pun intended.)
Check out Sudden Rush's take on "Hi`ilawe" someday, and tell me that's not "Hawaiian music." |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 2:31:10 PM
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quote:
There's also a rare copy of "Hawaiian Music and Musicians" currently available on eBay for a reasonable (for this book) price. I posted the link here in case anyone's interested:
Mahalo nui big time, Craig. Just bought it.
Now maybe I can answer the question that prompted this thread...
Mark |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 2:33:53 PM
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quote:
I almost never enter into these debates, but I'd like to point out that your definition eliminates "Aloha `Oe" and "Kaula `Ili."
Yes... and a great many other songs written by King David Kalakaua or Queen Liliuokalani! They include a word, or a few words, in English in MANY of their compositions. Same with Dennis Kamakahi with songs like Koke'e.
If you are going to eliminate foreign languages, then to avoid hypocrisy , you must also avoid foreign melodic and rhythmic structure as well. Therefore any song with a "Western" or "European" music form must be eliminated (scales, keys, etc).
This pretty much leaves only the ancient chant structure as "Hawaiian" under this criteria, as well as the nose flute (except that much of the nose-flute music probably did not have words, and so must be eliminated too!).
quote:
Just bought it.
Now maybe I can answer the question that prompted this thread...
You will have to read it first & it has lots of pages!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 05/09/2007 06:48:36 AM |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 11:29:18 PM
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I disagree with your way of differentiating hawaiian and nonhawaiian music. Sorry but it doesn't seem right to exclude the efforts of countless numbers of entertainers who don't meet your strict standard.
Question... are you hawaiian or non-hawaiian? |
Stay Tuned... |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1025 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 05:18:19 AM
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| W.T.F.C.? email me if you don't understand. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 07:46:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I've found that anytime you try to make clear labels for or box in a kind of music to a specific definition, someone will ALWAYS scribble on your label, or makes the sides of your box go slack (pun intended.)
Absolutely...consider this a first draft and scribble away.
quote:
Check out Sudden Rush's take on "Hi`ilawe" someday, and tell me that's not "Hawaiian music."
Actually, "Hi`ilawe" would fall under my definition due to its Hawaiian roots. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 09:47:25 AM
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Chunk: The o.p., I would guess - a young one with much curiosity about and love for music.
Craig: Yeah! |
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leokiekie
Aloha
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 10:39:42 AM
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hawaiianmusicfan138,
i find your claim that hawaiian music is only music that is solely in the hawaiian language to be absurd and uneducated. hawaiian music is based upon western influenced melody and harmony. there was no mele auana until the missionaries came to hawaii and introduced diatonic harmony, chordal structure, and the piano. then came the ukulele, guitar, violin, etc...... to say that only hawaiian lyric music is hawaiian music is hypocritical. the music itself is structured upon foreign influences that has became modern hawaiian music in its short history. can you honestly tell me that you discredit certain songs as non-hawaiian just because they're in the english language even though they talk about a yellow ginger lei or a home in kahalu'u? is john cruz' "island style" not hawaiian even though it tells of how he missed hawaii when he was in new york? livin' on a easy? manawela boy? waikiki? hawaiian paradise? what about ki ho'alu?
hawaiian music is made up of numerous styles. traditional, ki ho'alu, hapa-haole, hawaiian swing, contemporary, and yes...... even reggae and jawaiian. if the soul of the song is hawaiian then it's hawaiian music. your AIM handle is "kealiilover" and i see that you've reviewed keali'i reichell's cd's on the link you provided. you must be a big fan. why don't you email him and tell him that some of the songs he wrote aren't hawaiian. i'd like to know what he says. |
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