| Author |
 Topic  |
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2007 : 11:53:05 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Retro
quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Hawaiian music is music that is solely in the Hawaiian language.
So that leaves out ki ho`alu instrumentals then?
'A'ole. E kala mai. I forgot that. |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
 |
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 11:58:19 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fran Guidry
quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Lots of people on other boards have discussed their views on differentiating between Hawaiian music and non-Hawaiian music. My way of differentiating between the two is that Hawaiian music is music that is solely in the Hawaiian language. ... <snippage>
I almost never enter into these debates, but I'd like to point out that your definition eliminates "Aloha `Oe" and "Kaula `Ili."
Fran
Well...
First I was thinking, "How so?" But then I was like, "Oh, because of the English words that are thrown in to them." You have made me change my mind now. I have now become more open-minded. Now I say that it's mele that are in Hawaiian with only a couple English words in them so that they aren't really hapa haole. 'Ae, ki ho'alu falls in this category too.
Question: Why do you think some composers incorporate English into their mele? Is it because sometimes their thoughts can't be described in total Hawaiian? |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 12:01:35 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Retro
quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
hapa haole would not since its roots are in Tin Pan Alley regardless of its inspiration.
Whereas I would include it, since many hapa-haole songs were written by Hawai`i residents, performing with bands made up of Hawai`i residents, in venues in Hawai`i. Even today's musicians in Hawai`i are recognizing the place of hapa-haole music in the timeline of "Hawaiian music," with a festival celebrating it.
But that's just me - not saying you're wrong or right in your definition. I've found that anytime you try to make clear labels for or box in a kind of music to a specific definition, someone will ALWAYS scribble on your label, or makes the sides of your box go slack (pun intended.)
Check out Sudden Rush's take on "Hi`ilawe" someday, and tell me that's not "Hawaiian music."
Oh, I love that version! I think it's a mix between Hawaiian music and rap/hip hop. Brings something new into the ever popular classic. |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 12:13:02 PM
|
(looks sad)
Aloha mai kakou. Can you guys all forgive me for what I said originally? There were lots of things that I never had taken into consideration. I guess I just wanted to quickly post this and didn't really think about what I was writing. As far as English songs go, as long as it's about Hawai'i Nei, then it could be considered Hawaiian. However, something like... "In This Life" or something would be a more contemporary love song that was sung by one of Hawai'i's legendary entertainers, Israel Kamakawiwo'ole. That might be my wedding song. Other thoughts I have are Keali'i's "Road that Never Ends" and Na Leo's "Saving Forever." |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 1:05:16 PM
|
quote:
Can you guys all forgive me for what I said originally?
Of course we can (at least I can)!!
This reminds me of a conversation I had about 20 years ago, when a friend asked for some "Hawaiian Music" to put on his video of a Helicopter Tour of Maui. Well, I gave him some Brother's Cazimero and Hui 'Ohana disks and he called me back saying "No - I wanted to have some real Hawaiian music like the theme for Hawaii-Five-O!" I had to fall down laughing because it was so ridiculous!! After I got up again, I told him that the Hawaii-Five-O theme was not Hawaiian at all but was "Mid seventies L.A. Style TV theme music with a slight Tahitian rhythm influence". He seemed very disappointed at that point, and this illustrates the magnitude of the problem than many Hawaiians have in communicating and honoring their art forms. (This WAS 20 years ago and I think many people are more aware of Hawaiian art forms now, thanks to consistent and continuous efforts on the part of the Hawaiian arts communities)
It is easy to understand a desire to throw out many of the seemingly corrupting influences and arrive at a more pono vision of the Hawaiian Music Art (and other arts), but it is also very easy to go too far in this "protectionist" direction and thrown the baby out with the bathwater! (how would I say that in Hawaiian?  )
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 05/09/2007 1:10:11 PM |
|
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 2:18:04 PM
|
| Whoa! Very interesting talk you had there! |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 2:26:57 PM
|
Alex, those of us who sorta "know" you from this and other boards know that your motivation for the comments and questions you post is pure - your love for Hawaiian music is strong, and your curiosity is healthy. Whenever you are discussing subjective topics such as music and other arts, you'll get a lot of passionate responses - and not always in agreement with you.
There's nothing for which you need to be forgiven. I've seen that you are willing to listen to and learn from the differing opinions of others - that's a skill that some of us forget to use.
=Gregg= |
|
|
|
Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 5:16:21 PM
|
This will be the 12th anniversary year for mele.com -- so I probably get more than the average citizen's request for "real Hawaiian music". 
After a few failed suggestions in the beginning, I've now learned to ask "What is your idea of 'real' Hawaiian music? Give me an example of a song or singer you like." The answers run the gamut from Alfred Apaka and "Lovely Hula Hands", to a chant by Edith Kanaka`ole...and everything in between.
What is Hawaiian music? Any music of or about, these beautiful islands. |
Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
|
|
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 3:13:46 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Auntie Maria
This will be the 12th anniversary year for mele.com -- so I probably get more than the average citizen's request for "real Hawaiian music".
After a few failed suggestions in the beginning, I've now learned to ask "What is your idea of 'real' Hawaiian music? Give me an example of a song or singer you like." The answers run the gamut from Alfred Apaka and "Lovely Hula Hands", to a chant by Edith Kanaka`ole...and everything in between.
What is Hawaiian music? Any music of or about, these beautiful islands.
Agreed. |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 3:37:34 PM
|
Simple question, posed earlier in this thread. Are you Hawaiian or of non Hawaiin ethnicity? It would help my evaluation of your first post. I am trying to understand where your heart is. Are you trying to identify yourself or are you just extremely passionate about anything Hawaiian?
|
Stay Tuned... |
|
|
|
marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 4:23:14 PM
|
i've been avoiding this thread because it seems like a futile question, but what the heck. the closest i've come to a definition i find consistent is the following simile (and i expect to be shot down ^_^ )
- what is the hawaiian language? it's a language that a group of speakers agree is the language. at one point the question made no sense. now, the question makes a lot of sense as immersion programs are bearing fruit and some locals worry that an essence of the language is being lost by so many learning it as a second language. but, it comes down to an agreement among a set of speakers. if we're lucky, in 200 years there will be hawaiian speakers whose language - because the speakers are human - will differ from what is spoken now, and they'll agree that they're speaking hawaiian (if we're not lucky, then hawaiian will be extinct).
- language and music are different, but deeply related (read The Singing Neanderthal by Steve Mithen for a thoughtful book on the topic). the similarity is close enough, though, that i think the same definition applies: hawaiian music is the music created by people who grew up in hawaiian music and agree that they're creating hawaiian music.
music changes more quickly than language, in part because it can (if you change language too quickly then it becomes hard to communicate), and in part because doing something differently, but tied to a tradition, is where genius lies (think of bach, brahms, mozart). and, an outsider can pick up the style and extend it more easily than an outsider can with language (consider barry flanagan).
but, it still comes down to a group definition. you can't define it by external attributes - it's what a group of people agree is hawaiian music.
so, alex's question is both futile and essential.
aloha,
keith
|
|
|
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 5:30:37 PM
|
quote:
alex's question is both futile and essential.
And therein lies the essential futility of life!
I knew Existentialism would work it's way into this thread!!
Yes - 200 years ago English was quite different too, just try to real Beowulf (sp?) and understand it, not to mention Shakespeare. All living things change over time.
Good thoughts Keith...
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 05/11/2007 5:31:35 PM |
|
|
|
alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 12:34:34 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by hikabe
Simple question, posed earlier in this thread. Are you Hawaiian or of non Hawaiin ethnicity? It would help my evaluation of your first post. I am trying to understand where your heart is. Are you trying to identify yourself or are you just extremely passionate about anything Hawaiian?
If you want to know that, visit my myspace page! I don't feel comfortable sharing that through here. You'll have to add me as a friend because my profile is set to private. 'A'ole pilikia, I'll accept you. E malama pono!
That's actually for all of you who have one! Don't hesitate to add me! |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
|
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 05:54:35 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Auntie Maria
This will be the 12th anniversary year for mele.com
Wow - only 12 years? I can't remember a time when this wonderful resource was NOT available. Happy anniversary, Auntie, and may there be dozens more. (No - you don't get to retire...) |
Edited by - Retro on 05/12/2007 05:55:12 AM |
|
|
|
Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 06:21:42 AM
|
Retro, have you been talking to my husband again??? He's retired now, yet whenever I broach the subject for ME, he just grins -- knowing full well that I can probably never leave MELE.COM.
Mebbe when I'm drooling so much that my keyboard keeps shorting out while I'm typing, I'll consider stepping aside. Not anytime soon, I hope! 
FYI to readers, I'm not Hawaiian -- proudly Mexican-Scot (on my mom's side) plus Scot-Irish-?? (from dad). For details about my multi-decade connection with Hawaiian music, click "About Us" on MELE.COM |
Auntie Maria
===================
My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
