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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2007 : 07:53:06 AM
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quote:
Is it a bad idea to seek reflection from a room when recording?
Depends entirely on what you are recording. A typical way to record acoustic guitar in a real world studio is to place the guitarist on a small patch of hardwood floor; often off center along one of the short walls, maybe ten feet into the room with the guitarist facing into the center of the room.
Many studios have a special section of the main room set aside for this purpose; the floor might be covered with an area rug otherwise.
Mic'ing depends on the guitar, the room, the player, and how the track will eventually be used. But often mics will be placed in such a way to pick up some (not much) of the room sound bouncing off the floor.
For a solo guitar recording, you may indeed want to get more reflections. Or not, if you are planning on using effects creatively. Note that this is "a" typical way, not "the" typical way. There is no "the" typical way.
If it's a classical guitarist, you might even record in a church or concert hall. I once did a recording with Renaissance arch-lutenist David Rogers in a modest commercial studio: we placed him about a third of the way in the long axis of the room, "opened" up the room by moving most of the gobos (big sound absorbtion panels) away from the walls & rolled back all of the carpet. We used Earthworks omni mics -- one about a foot away aimed more or less at the body of the beast, one about four feet back. Even so, I added "ambience" when mixing to simulate a larger space. I've always wanted to try recording a steel string guitarist this way.
I can't recall if this is the CD I worked on, but at least here's a picture of the dang instrument: https://www.indiana.edu/~mrktpl/focus/08.shtml
The stuff on the walls does three things ("typically", again): 1) tame bass buildup in the corners; 2) lessen certain reverberant frequencies (not all reverberations. Otherwise, we'd all record in an anechoaic chamer. Which sounds dreadful...); and 3) diffuse the reverberations... whcih actually may have the effect of increasing the perceived "spaciousness" of a small room.
Note that the point is not to create a dead, lifeless space-- rather to control the space. Lawrence can wax peotic (or, at least, mathematic) on exactly what is going on with all the little bits and pieces of sound bouncing around all the little bits and pieces of stuff in the room. I can't, so I rely of people like him to set up the room.
Incidentally, studios typically use different sound treatments for the live rooms and the control room, and for different reasons. In the control room, you want to hear exactly what was recorded, so you might take extra care to lessen stuff bouncing around. You really don't want sound to reflect off the monitor speakers directly back into your ears... or for the corners to fool you into thinking there's bass on the recording where indeed there isn't...
In my modest home studio, the oddly shaped room and sloping ceiling takes care of most of the bad refelections. I've got soft stuff in a few places on the wall & yer basic low budget diffusers (ie: bookcase with different sized books). And I've got big honkin' studio grade bass traps in three of the five corners. That takes care of most of the mixing issues.
For recording, I'll roll back the rug and find a nice sweet spot where the guitar (or whatever) naturally sounds good. Which, in the case of a country project I did here years ago, meant putting my strat through a vintage Princeton Reverb placed in the bathroom, facing the tile shower...
Like Fran says, if it sounds good, it is good. Or, in that case, it sounded bad. Which was good.
Hope this helps.
M
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 08:19:12 AM
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Lawrence can wax peotic (or, at least, mathematic)
So that is the stuff that keeps getting stuck in my ears!
Sometimes it's hard to hear through all that poetic wax unless I calculate the definite integral of the indefinite derivative of B.S. then divide by Avagadro's number (or was that Avocado's number?). 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 06/03/2007 08:21:24 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 06:46:21 AM
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so Reid...
If you send me an email address (I notice that you do not have the private anonymous contact system thru Taropatch Activated), I will send you back your files with some small adjustments.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 02:21:21 AM
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Thanks for your previous advice and specific instruction on Audition technique, Lawrence. I did absolutely overdo the Noise Reduction and in a crude and simpleminded way. The first thing I was going to do, when I found the time, was to NR as you suggested. Your other comments were very helpful as well.
I didn't mean for you to go to lots of trouble fixing up the files, given that the NR had already messed them up (and was the first step after tracking), but I thank you for it. Will you tell me what you did to modify them please?
(Actually, I thought my email was activated, but I haven't looked in a long time.)
...Reid |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 06:22:55 AM
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Will you tell me what you did to modify them please?
Sure, but first you have to listen and then tell me what you think I did!
(I spent about 1 hour fiddling with the files... If you feel guilty then you owe me about one hour of your time at some future point )
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 07/25/2007 10:59:23 AM |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 4:18:50 PM
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I think Sarah's playing and Reid's recordings are absolutely wonderful. Yes, they need a little nudge, but not much. For all you TPers, this is what I've been promoting for years. Take what you have and learn how to use it effectively.
Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 10:33:55 AM
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Aloha Reid, would you mind if I processed the tracks and posted the results and modus operandi ?
Pakile Henriques |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 10:56:23 AM
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Basil...
I already did that some time ago (almost two months) and sent Reid the files directly.
No response yet.
I was not going to post the modified files unless Reid agreed, at which point, I too, would reveal any modifications made.
Let's see how Reid responds... maybe we can post two differing interpretations (yours and mine).
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 07/25/2007 10:58:04 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 02:39:25 AM
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Thanks, guys. It hasn't been from lack of interest that I haven't moved on these. Health problems have been distracting me and probably will for some time.
I had also planned to tweak them myself - as I originally posted, they were raw recordings. But Life intervened.
Basil, feel free to process the tracks; and posting your methods would be very educational.
Lawrence, I should have at least gotten back to you since you made the effort, so let me do so now: thanks. Also, go ahead and post your results, since I am not sure when, or to what extent, I can get back into what was an interesting hobby. Right now my appointment book is pretty full.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 07/26/2007 02:48:03 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 06:36:38 AM
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Yes, Reid, I suspected you might be quite overloaded with health issues. Sorry you are subject to such undeserved punishments.
Once I remember what I did to the files, I will try out Basil's hosting offer and then post links here.
Good luck with the physical issues.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 12:28:48 PM
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Oh Man, as Bugs Bunny said "What a maroon!"
I have been able to go over more info about Noise Reduction and it is quite clear that at least 7/10 of the problems with my recordings, on the Kaplan Audio Screwup Scale, have been caused by my crude use of Noise Reduction. I thought that it was such a simple, straightforward process, and I have proven to myself that it is not at all. I also now have some alternate mechanisms in my brain for taking out ambient noise properly (without messing up the music royally) and only to the "proper" extent. Actually, I give the Adobe Audition manual and "Help" files, and the extant web "tutorials" some negative credit, too.
I spent most of my limited brain power on other things, like mic placement, and mud and boom removal, (which is OK) but totally messed things up with NR - and that was *always* the first thing I did after tracking. Luckily, I always saved every significant step, including the raw files, along with a Word doc recalling what I did, so I have a BIG project ahead of me to start over at the beginning of every decent take I ever made.
I think I will be able to restart in a month or so, but these omni test clips also were screwed by my crude NR, as I said, so maybe, Lawrence and Basil, you would be trying to make silk purses out of sows ears.
Well, live and, sometimes, learn.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 07/30/2007 12:29:19 PM |
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