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mpi_50
Lokahi
USA
133 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2007 : 6:39:50 PM
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OK, bear with me. I just broke a string on my guitar trying to tune it to C wahine. I have Keola Beamer's instructional video, which is a hassle, so I figured that if I bought a tuner which you guys said was "the only way to go" and Mark showed me how to go from standard to Taro patch G without a tuner (my preference).There was plenny pilikea o' dea. Anyway, I bought the KORG CA-30 chromatic tuner which would give me all 12 keys and therefore covering the full spectrum that Ki Ho'alu covers. den da string wen buckalosse like one kite, now what? Any thoughts would be appreciated, I spent 24 buck for the tuner, I'd like to know how to effectively use it.
MAHALOZ!
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2007 : 8:16:18 PM
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| Which string broke? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 06:58:55 AM
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Strings break for many reasons -- not the tuner's fault. I had a bad batch of Elixir strings that I kept breaking one string. I told them and they sent me new sets of strings and no more problems. When they strings are old and oxidized and you start to retune them more than they are "ready" for, the metal in the string fatigues and breaks. New clean strings should not break.
Since you are using Keola's video, I assume the C Wahine you are referring to is also called Keola's C (CGDGBE)? If so, only the C and low G are lowered from stanmdard tuning (EADGBE) so the string should not break with lower tension (unless there is a kink or sharp spot on your tuner, bridge, or nut).
Again, it is not the tuner. The Korg CA-30 is a good tuner. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 11:51:11 AM
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When you ask a string to go back & forth between various tunings, it gets work hardened. This is what happens when you bend a wire back and forth until it breaks. If your strings were old and/or subject to frequent changes of tuning, they would be more prone to break. I suspect string life is somewhat less in Ki ho alu than staying in one tuning constantly.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 12:31:19 PM
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Work hardening is almost like heat treating. It makes the strings less ductile (ability to be drawn/pulled, like taffy)and brittle (easier to crack). If you took a wire coat hanger and bent it back and forth, over and over again, it definitely will break because you have hardened it beyond its capability to remain ductile. If you feel the area where it broke, it would feel warm...all those little microscopic grains of iron make friction when they are moved back and forth against each other and friction makes heat (like rubbing your hands together). As a customer of musicians, I can tell you and urge you strongly, that it makes a big difference in how old your strings are...much prettier music if you have fresh strings. If you play frequently, you probably do not notice the change in the sound, but your audience will. A frequent investment in strings is one of the cheapest ways to make beautiful music.
Heat Treatment 101 per MIL-H-6875. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 08/13/2007 12:31:51 PM |
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mpi_50
Lokahi
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 1:56:19 PM
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| Ok, it was just C wahine (I'm a rookie in the slack key arena) and da small pokanini string wen' broke. I admit the strings are old, my ultimate concern is how to use the tuner to tune for the different tunings. Some tunings have a high and a low C.I was going from F wahine to C wahine when this happened. I've used a tuner (friend's before a show)for standard tuning. But slack key is kicking my okole! |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 2:03:14 PM
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| Nobody's said anything about the tuner, though. (No, sorry --- Capt. Mike did; he noted that it's a good tuner.) We have three of that model - Momi & I each keep one with our primary `ukulele (along with a MatriX universal tuner pick-up, which really makes a difference in getting a precise reading, especially in a room with other instruments playing), plus I just bought another one to go with my bass guitar, so I don't have to remember to take it out of the uke case. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 8:51:45 PM
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Yeah I saw Momi and Retro using it. It got a squishy thing like a clothes pin that you clip to the head. Most tuners just show what the string is doing at a given time if you are going an octave up the string will break. But your ear should hear the octave change. So for example if you are tuning a D string to C you would go down but if you go up you would hear that and you probably couldn't tune the D up to C before something bad happens. If you are moving the B to C you know you are going up but that is only one fret so that string shouldn't break. The high E stays the same and if it was coming down from F if it was old or tuned and retuned many times it will break. But mostly it sounds like you might be going from one octave to another. Tuners are good for accuracy but you gotta use ears as well. I guess there is not enough info. you could let us know what you were tuned to before you retuned. I have gone through many tuners and slacking has never given me a problem. Only when the strings are old.
Why not get three guitars and tune each one where you want it and leave it. the strings never break they just get old and rusty and cfrusty. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 06:12:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
they just get old and rusty and cfrusty.
Just like the musician! |
Puna |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:02:47 PM
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Hey Gary,
Use your ears first to loosen or tighten the string to somewhere near what it should be, then use the tuner to do the final "fine-tuning". It is good to train your ears and it make sure you are tuning in the right direction. F Wahine is CFCGCE and C Wahine is CGDGBE, (strings numbered from highest note string=1 to lowest=6) so you should have kept string 6 the same (C=C), raised string 5 up (F to G), raised string 4 up (C to D), kept string 3 the same (G=G), lowered string 2 (C to B), and lowered string 1 (E to D).
Now if you were raising the string 2 to B from C -- NO WONDER IT BROKE -- WEN 11 STEPS TOO HIGH!
Same if you were raising the string 1 from E to D -- NO WONDER IT BROKE -- WEN 11 STEPS TOO HIGH!
Keep this general rule of thumb -- most slack key tunings maintain the general overall string tension on the neck. So when some strings are tightened, some are loosened. If we didn't do that, the strings would break all the time -- or worse yet, the neck would snap, or the bridge pull off (neither of which have I personally witnessed ;-)) |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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mpi_50
Lokahi
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 2:06:00 PM
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| As an aside; I work on a dock (wharfmaster) and I play when no vessels are scheduled; therfore more that 1 guitar is out of the question. Capt Mike, das why wen buckalosse da bugga, auwe! How do you educate the ear? I've played for 50 yrs. std. tuning. Now that slack key has my attention, I'm starting all over and still no formal training as a foundation for music scales and reading. I can kick okole with tabs and chords, but dazzit! Maholoz my bruddaz and sitaz |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 5:57:33 PM
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Let's talk more about this Buy Tree Guitars idea. Honney dearest, are you listening?
If you think you need a new guitar- you need a new guitar. Don't fight nature, it was meant to be.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 5:58:29 PM
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Let's talk more about this Buy Tree Guitars idea. Honney dearest, are you listening?
If you think you need a new guitar- you need a new guitar. Don't fight nature, it was meant to be.(Paraphrased from Mary Z. Cox.)
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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mpi_50
Lokahi
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 8:09:30 PM
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| I get 4 awready, 2 electric and 2 acoustic, and one ukulele in one papaya tree. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 12:54:52 AM
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| If Paul only had 3 guitars, that would be swell. So, honey dearest darling, you better start weeding some out. And tell your friends that Famiglia Certo is not the home for wayward guitars. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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