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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2007 : 02:43:59 AM
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I can't imagine that anybody has recorded songs like this, but I just wanted to ask if anyone knows if any artists have. If someone were to come out with an album like that, I wonder how native Hawaiians would feel about it and what they would think of it. Do you think the music style or the poetry in the lyrics would catch their attention first?
'Alika
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He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 03:34:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
I can't imagine that anybody has recorded songs like this, but I just wanted to ask if anyone knows if any artists have. If someone were to come out with an album like that, I wonder how native Hawaiians would feel about it and what they would think of it. Do you think the music style or the poetry in the lyrics would catch their attention first?
'Alika
You ask the best questions. You really do!
First, you have to define "pop" for us. Because "pop" is short for "popular music" and what is popular changes from era to era. But name a particular era and we can probably come up with a few artists that attempted to sing Hawaiian-language "pop."
A few examples...
- In the early 50s, smooth vocals with orchestral arrangements were popular. I am thinking of Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Rosemary Clooney, Ella Fitzgerald... Hawai`i's Marlene Sai recorded some albums under the baton of Paul Mark that could stand up next to any of these. The vocals were superb and the orchestrations exquisite. Then there were vocal groups on the mainland like the Four Freshmen, the Hi-Los, the Skip-Jacks, and Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross who sang jazz/pop in tight harmony arrangements. Listen to Buddy Fo and the Invitations from Hawai`i and see how they merged Hawaiian songs into this jazz/pop vein. Many of their songs were in the Hawaiian language, but the arrangements - by mainland arrangers like Russ Garcia and Billy May (both of whom arranged for Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra, Rosemary Clooney, Sammy Davis Jr., and Mel Tormé) - were not at all Hawaiian.
- Also in the early 50s, combo jazz - like the King Cole Trio, the Page Cavanaugh Trio, or the Joe Bushkin groups - were the rage on the west coast. Hawaiians like Richard Kauhi and the Kalima Brothers assembled combos like these which were essentially jazz in nature but which performed Hawaiian language classics as well as the pop standards of the day.
- In the 60s, rock-and-roll came into vogue. Hawaiian arrangers started adding strong rock backbeats to their music - even entire drum kits which really weren't used in Hawaiian music previously. There were plenty of what I consider to be "Hawaiian rock LPs" during this period from Leinaala Haili, Bill Kaiwa, Iwalani Kahalewai, and the Paradise Serenaders. These sounds continued into the 70s in Hawai`i on recordings by Al Lopaka and Sam Kapu.
- The 60s and 70s were also the era of the Beatles and Rolling Stones. Many Hawaiian musicians admit to having followed these mainland acts avidly and their influences crept into Hawaiian music. While we can't call their music "pop," listen to Gabby Pahinui's 70s recordings for influences of the Beatles in the intros and endings and listen for the influence of the Stones on Peter Moon. (The intro to "Kawika" on the Guava Jam LP is clearly a lick copped from "Let's Spend The Night Together" and the "hoo...HOOs" on "Ha`aheo E Ka Manu Pikake" from the Cane Fire LP are right out of "Sympathy For The Devil.")
- In the 70s, soft rock was popular on the mainland - artists like Orleans, Seals and Crofts, Dan Fogelberg, James Taylor, and Bread. Hawai`i had their own, too - Cecilio and Kapono, Keola and Kapono Beamer, Country Comfort, Kalapana, and Olomana. Admittedly, only the Beamers and Olomana were performing any Hawaiian language songs. But Olomana certainly sounds like mainland 70s soft rock, and "Honolulu City Lights" could stand up next to a Doobie Brothers or Seals and Crofts album with the acoustic guitars overlayed with lush string arrangements.
- In the 70s and 80s there was some Hawaiian disco. Check out Rachel Asebido and Kaleo O Kalani's recordings from this period as well as some cuts from Loyal Garner's records. Some of these songs were in the Hawaiian language.
- And look at what is going on today in Hawai`i. Check out Kainani Kahaunaele and Kaumakaiwa Kanaka`ole. They are pushing Hawaiian music in all kinds of directions - backwards, forwards, and inside out.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 05:52:24 AM
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| Lots of people don't like Sudden Rush's (hip hop) version of Hi`ilawe, but I think it is respectful of the source and innovative. I understand they got permission to use Gabby's underlying vocal tracks (I guess they would have to have done so.) |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 07:21:31 AM
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For some reason, I thought that version of Hi`ilawe was actually Martin singing. This is what Wayne Harada said: (Gabby Pahinui's "Hi'ilawe" typifies the bold m.o., with the late star's son Martin doing background vocals)" Unless it is another version of Hi`ilawe by someone else that I am thinking of.
Why not? There is nothing sacred about the `olelo that it has to only be used for certain purposes. To be a vital, live, flourishing language once again, it has to permeate all walks of life.
Pop songs should be sung in Hawaiian. There are pop sounding songs that are sung in Hawaiian. One that "pops" to mind is "Keiki o Ka `Aina" by Robi Kahakalau. Plenty of "pop" type songs also have some Hawaiian words, although most is sung in English. Would you call Na Leo's version of "I Miss you My Hawai`i" as pop? I would in that instance because of the widespread play that the song has received as done by Na Leo. By the way: I love the way they do it. I don't care if it is widely played...it is a good way to get the tourists interested in Hawaiian music. It is a beautiful song and very poetic..."I hear the wind traveling down the Ko`olau" Kenneth's version on You Tube( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ZgsFvtFAE sounds "more Hawaiian" to me than Na Leo's, whatever "more Hawaiian" might mean. I guess I like his because A#1, he wrote it - who could sing it better? and B#2, less glitz. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 08/15/2007 10:33:15 AM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 08:43:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
For some reason, I thought that version of Hi`ilawe was actually Martin singing. This is what Wayne Harada said: (Gabby Pahinui's "Hi'ilawe" typifies the bold m.o., with the late star's son Martin doing background vocals)" Unless it is another version of Hi`ilawe by someone else that I am thinking of.
Why not? There is nothing sacred about the `olelo that it has to only be used for certain purposes. To be a vital, live, flourishing language once again, it has to permeate all walks of life.
Pop songs should be sung in Hawaiian. There are pop sounding songs that are sung in Hawaiian. One that "pops" to mind is "Keiki o Ka `Aina" by Robi Kahakalau. Plenty of "pop" type songs also have some Hawaiian words, although most is sung in English. Would you call Na Leo's version of "I Miss you My Hawai`i" as pop? I would in that instance because of the widespread play that the song has received as done by Na Leo.
No, it is definitely Gabby. From the Honolulu Advertiser article by Wayne Harada, August 7, 2002...
"That was a tricky one to do," Onekea said. "We weren't sure if we could sing it and do it justice. But we got to talking to Panini Records about obtaining the Gabby track, and while they were initially hesitant, they let us proceed after we sent them a rough track of what we intended to do. They actually liked it." Another hurdle was to get the seal of approval from the Pahinui 'ohana. "We contacted Martin Pahinui to help play on the song and yes, we got the family's blessing. That was important," Onekea said. "They loved the fact that we'd taken an older song, Revitalized it, and developed a new appreciation of Gabby."
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 08:47:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Would you call Na Leo's version of "I Miss you My Hawai`i" as pop? I would in that instance because of the widespread play that the song has received as done by Na Leo.
Well, we haven't reaqlly settled on a definition of "Hawaiian music" and we probably never will. But some ethnomusicologists define Hawaiian music as any music that has an honoring quality - that honors Hawaiian people, Hawaiian places, and Hawaiian ways. So, by that definition, "I Miss You, My Hawai`i" is Hawaiian music.
But it sure sounds pop.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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ArtSap
Lokahi
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 09:58:39 AM
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| Sean Na`auao has been recording lots of traditional music lately, which I must say have been wonderful renditions. He's also added a different spin to some traditional songs such as "Papalina Lahilahi", on his latest CD, "Ka Eha Ke Aloha"... |
Art
SF Bay Area, CA / Mililani, HI
"The real music comes from within you - not from the instrument" |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 11:43:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Would you call Na Leo's version of "I Miss you My Hawai`i" as pop? I would in that instance because of the widespread play that the song has received as done by Na Leo.
Well, we haven't reaqlly settled on a definition of "Hawaiian music" and we probably never will. But some ethnomusicologists define Hawaiian music as any music that has an honoring quality - that honors Hawaiian people, Hawaiian places, and Hawaiian ways. So, by that definition, "I Miss You, My Hawai`i" is Hawaiian music.
But it sure sounds pop.
FWIW, Kenneth Makuakane (the author of "I Miss You, My Hawai'i") considers it pop. So do I. I've had similar discussions with Keola Beamer regarding Honolulu City Lights that were very interesting, but it was a long time ago so don't recall the specifics so I would prefer not to risk misquoting him. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 11:56:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
I can't imagine that anybody has recorded songs like this, but I just wanted to ask if anyone knows if any artists have. If someone were to come out with an album like that, I wonder how native Hawaiians would feel about it and what they would think of it. Do you think the music style or the poetry in the lyrics would catch their attention first?
'Alika
People have and will continue to put out Hawaiian language songs in a variety of musical styles. The first thing that catches the ear of someone who doesn't speak the language is the music. If they like the groove, melody and harmony they won't even notice if the language is done well or not. For those the speak the language, it doesn't matter how great the music is, if the lyrics are wrong or poorly pronounced we won't like it.
Personally I would not re-record a Hawaiian standard in a more contemporary style out of respect for the composer. That is not to be critical of those who do, but I wouldn't. Nor would I do an instrumental arrangment of a standard unless the composer was alive and gave his or her permission. |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 1:57:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Momi
Lots of people don't like Sudden Rush's (hip hop) version of Hi`ilawe, but I think it is respectful of the source and innovative. I understand they got permission to use Gabby's underlying vocal tracks (I guess they would have to have done so.)
I love that version sooooo much! |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 2:04:58 PM
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By pop, I mean ballads such as ones sung by Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand, etc., and maybe some r&b too.
'A'ole, pololei?
'Alika |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 3:56:52 PM
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| I Miss You, Honolulu City Lights and such are stylistically just as pop as Celine, Streisand, etc, just that they have a Hawai‘i theme. |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 4:00:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
I Miss You, Honolulu City Lights and such are stylistically just as pop as Celine, Streisand, etc, just that they have a Hawai‘i theme.
'Ae. Any similar Hawaiian language material? |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 9:05:40 PM
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| Some have already been mentioned - Robi, Sean Na'auao, Hawaiian Style Band, Henry Kapono, Kaumakaiwa. The "Days Gone Bye" demo I posted in my last Nahenahe.net podcast was more pop than rock to me. I wish I could post some of the demos that Kenneth and I are currently working on; some are in this pop vein but in 'olelo Hawai'i. What form they will ultimately have on their release will be up to him, but hope some make it with traps drums, keyboards, etc. like he did when producing "I Miss You" for Na Leo. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 06:47:38 AM
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Thank God there is no heavy metal Hawaiian. When I think of Hawaiian language pop songs I think of "Sweet Memory" and "Ei Nei". These are more like ballads for classic "pop" singers like Frank Sinatra, not pop singers like Britney Spears. I kind of like the Hawaiian language hiphop from Mana Caceres and others. In this age of discontent about the plight of Hawaiians, it sounds right for the islands, like reggae did 20 years ago.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 06:52:45 AM
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| `Alika, if you're talking about songs that started off as English- language pop songs but got translated into Hawaiian, the first that comes to mind is "Rainbow Connection," the first Hawaiian language version of which was performed by the Cazimeros. If I recall correctly, "Kalua," from the movie "Bird of Paradise" was first composed in English, the Hawaiian translation coming later. Aunty Iwalani Kamahele told me that the Hawaiian lyrics are not a translation of the English. "Ke Kali Nei Au" is known in English as "Hawaiian Wedding Song," and while sentiments are similar in both language versions, the translations are not literal. According to huapala.org, "Ke Kali Nei Au" was composed by Charles E. King for an operetta, Prince of Hawaii. |
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