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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2007 : 10:55:12 AM
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quote:
Is the pollution from planes any better than that of the Super Ferry?
Figuring out the “footprint” of the Superferry relative to airplanes would require a complex analysis of multiple factors. But typically fuel use in conventional displacement boats is proportionate to speed. So high speed ferries use far more fuel than slower conventional ferries.
The overall environmental concerns are not so much air pollution from the ferry, but potential harm to marine mammals, introduction of invasive species, and adverse effects on water quality and biota. Then there is the matter of more cars on island roads already choked with traffic.
Larry
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 11:36:55 AM
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Pollution, invasive species, threat to marine life, mammals, reptiles (honu), and the `aina all should have been discussed, dissected, hashed and rehashed BEFORE an operating permit was issued.
We can debate til the cows come home the pros and cons of the ferry itself. What would concern me more is how they possibly could be let to operate without an EIS. You cannot build shopping or even housing developments without EIS, e.g.,where all the rainwater runoff is going to go when you pave the grass and put up a parking lot, etc. Little constructions companies must consider these things and they are but fly specks in the overall scheme of things. There is something much bigger afoot in this instance. I would want an accounting from the legislators who permitted it to happen. I would look at their finances to determine if any conflicts of interest. Somebody is getting plenny kala and it ain't the folks who would ride the ferry or carry their produce to market. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RichM
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 5:19:07 PM
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This is my second post on this forum, and I read with interest about the Super Ferry and peoples concerns and have some of my own too. I am NOT an employee of any transport company, so please keep an open mind!
I have been fortunate to travel by air and some by sea to all the islands except Ni'ihau, as that island unless you know someone, you cannot land on 'cept by boat and you can only walk to the the high tide edge, no more.
The key word here is by BOAT.
Keep this in mind while reading this. We have ohana on Molokai and went on Labor Day weekend to celebrate 2 graduations, one from school on Molokai and the other from college on the mainland, the girls who graduated are my nieces. One great thing about Molokai is that Labor Day weekend spells the beginning of lobster season, so anxious to go to old favorite spots for the bugs, I was told we were too late, that some policemen and firemen from Honolulu came over in late July and August and raped the reefs, out of season. Ohana said that their ohana who work at the airport reported many coolers leaving the island with folks off Oahu in this time frame. They were asked 'whats in the coolers?" "Fish" was the reply. So when the people who turned the coolers over for their air flight back to Oahu were not looking, they opened the coolers to see lobster inside of them, many, many lobster.
Also, friends reported that boats from Maui and Oahu frequent the shores of Molokai to rape the reefs, leaving the ohana on Molokai little pickings left, and if they take the small bugs, no bugs means the end of a delicacy that they have a right to.
It already does not matter, Super Ferry or not, people own ocean worthy vessels and are using them to go to the distant locations to take whatever they want, and in abundance without care for anyone else.
Regardless of the Super Ferry if people want to wreck thoughless havoc they will. The thing is to establish laws with penalties so severe that no one would want to try anything for fear of loss of property and hefty fine.
I believe that this not possible today, because even lawmakers shrivel from the duty of law including judges who refuse to enforce the law.
Criminals who kill, rape, rob and assault peole are released to to do "their" thing on a society who the rulemakers have stripped of rights of self defence as well.
Wether the Super Ferry is stopped or not, no matter, people who do not live under the influence of allowing nature to take care of itself, but rape nature, are the ones causing the problems.
The Super Ferry is an object, like a rifle or a pistol, the object does not cause the problem, it is the people who cause the problem.
The whale part is a hoax as well i believe.
How many here have been up close and personal with a whale? I have been, in an 11 foot inflatable boat, more than once too. They scare the heck out of you when they surface, when they blow it stinks, but they can swim, and swim well too. They are curious and what brings them up is the sound of the motor, reflection of the prop in the water when sunligth bounces from it, as it sparkles so they want to see it. The whales are smart creatures, but as we all know, in the old days they could not out run harpoons and sailors in chase boats.
The same situation is at hand today, however with a set sailing course, chances of collision are greatly reduced, if it were not, there would be many other collision reports from Young Brothers barge service, jet skis, high powered mono hull boats who use jet propulsion the same as the super ferry. No prop, shallow draft and the Super Fery does not require ballast water so no blow out, no worry of invasive specie in the water unlike large ocean liners who for years have been berthed island wide from foreign waters which creatures get sucked into ballast tanks in oveseas berthings, then released when the ballast water is blown out at docking here in Hawaii.
I would like to see the Super Ferry survive, just for the fact of my use of it, not to see the environment trampled either. It can be done if cooler heads prevail too.
The reasoning behind the whale collision part is to me more hype than fact, look at the collisions already occuring, and the bulk of these is in the inner area between Maui, Lanai and Molokai where the whale watching charters operate. They are more at fault as they try to get close, but are limited due to rulings. But again, the factor of the whale being curious brings them close to the vessel,causing the collison to occur, so both parties the skipper of the vessel and the whale are at fault. These charters try to get to the whales, and that is where the problem starts.
On the other hand the Super Ferry has forward looking radar which few read about or know, which is state of the art in technology.
This radar can "see" in the water in front of the vessel for a distance any large marine creatures who may chance into harms way.
Since the Super Ferry is operating away from protected waters until it comes close to docking, the chance of the skipper & crew at the helm missing seeing something as big as a bus are pretty slim. Since the vessel has its speed and the ability to turn quickly, collisions can be avoided.
Of course, there are chances, like you or I walking accross the street and getting hit by a car or truck, there are always chances of that. Do we stop walking and driving? Driving part would be nice to halt, but no chance, we all are too used to driving. Try taking care of a horse, and plan your next outing on horseback, or your next business meeting on horse or even mule!
The EIS on pier improvements, well, fortune has it we were involved with this both on Kauai and Oahu with products we sell for concrete spall problems.
Basically, the bulk of the work done was to break up the fractured concrete that occured from years of neglect, rebuild the piling and pier deck system to support the weight of the ramp and vehicular use for loading. The only thing added from prior to this was the ramp which if you look goes onto a barge and then rises up into the inside of the Super Ferry. Not state of the art, mobile, can be removed and the barge can be docked somewhere else.
Keep something else in mind, Smith Maritime, who tugs fuel barges to neighbor islands I believe is behind a lot of this, their space was invaded for the Super Ferry.
Conversations with certain people there who hold sway over the harbor for Smith Maritime had him fuming about their loss of space for fuel barges on Oahu and Maui.
Maui is choked with marine traffic, as the infastructure cannot support the growth, it is on breaking edge.
You won't read this in any paper, for fear of causing more issues with people on Maui, but it is fact. No fuel on Maui, what happens?
Shortages can and will occur, so the problem runs deeper than what people are tlaking about currently.
Combine Maui with Kauai and you have 2 bases of peple being manipulated on both sides of the coin about real and thought up issues.
Regarding cars with dirt, suppose your a farmer and need a tractor on one of the islands, you find a used one on one island and want to move it to the other. Now of all things, a tractor that runs in thedirt for almost all of its life would be more suspect to the carrying of an invasive specie. Guess what, farmers are already moving the equipment by barge, so what is the difference? None.
EIS requirement soon will know no boundry at this rate. Want to buy a car? File an EIS about the footprint of that or any other piece of equipment. Would not be too good, specially if you and each of us would have to do that. if left to their devices, the environmentalists might require it. However, if it infringed on their lifestyle, they would be up in arms over it. What is occuring is they want to play both sides of the coin to have it their way. if they really want it their way, then it should go all the way, to each vessel regardless of size, airliner, car, truck, motorcycle, ship whatever moves under propulison should have an EIS regardless.
Where does it stop?
By the way, the stryker issue is a non issue. They may not be returning to Hawaii, and as well, the Army owns their own ocean going vessels, keep in mind they have more ships than the Navy!
At Pearl Harbor there are 2 ocean going Landing Craft that can carry up to 35 or 40 pieces of equipment. The use of the Super ferry for military gear would only occur in a disaster, and not at any other time. The vessel is configured for civilian use only as the military requirement for shipping is on another page. Yes, i deal with the military as well and see some things that most do not get an opportunity to see.
Am I a proponent of the Ferry? I already said yes, my wife, myself and my Harley Davidson. try renting a harley neighbor island it is 150.00+ per day, so the Super Ferry is a plus for us. if it goes away, all it means is we travel to the mainland to spend our $ there for trips we could have taken here as I refuse to fly neighbor island to rent a bike to ride there.
Finally, the insect part, well, it is a good thing the environmentalists were not here when these islands were lava fields, because today there would be no palm trees, and the vast assortment of tropical flowers and fruits as well as coffee to enjoy, as they would have barred entry and these islands then would be a very bleak spot on the face of the planet.
With that, who really has the right to say what can or cannot be done with nature? Nature will take its own course, the log that makes it to our shores might be infested with ants or whatever other insect that can cling for thousands of miles of ocean travel.
it really is a laff when man says "we need to do this to protect nature..." remember that in the next hurricane!! |
Music and Ridin' |
Edited by - RichM on 11/08/2007 5:33:50 PM |
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mahimahi
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 5:36:22 PM
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Remember Mother Nature will always take care of herself...we the humanoids are part of the equation and we may eventually wipe ourselves off the face of the earth.
Anyways I mention a possible oil spill from the Super Ferry well it just happened out here in the San Francisco Bay....www.sfgate.com...since it happened here it definitely can happen in the islands. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 5:41:36 PM
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Rich - you bring up some very good points. I do so much appreciate hearing the point of view of one who is there, one who has much more of a vested interest in what is happening. Brother, thanks for sharing your mana`o.
The fare they propose, I think, is what may hurt them most. It is way too much. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 05:37:57 AM
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Here is a song entitled "Superferry Mele" on You Tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Few-4mtMdw
Ferry is going to Kahului but not to Nawiliwili. Does anyone have any further info on how come it is going to Maui but not to Kaua`i?
Mahalo. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 3:24:58 PM
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The draft environmental impact statement is now available.
See article from Na Wai Ola Loa on-line newsletter of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs: Draft ferry EIS released for comment http://www.oha.org/kwo/loa/2009/01/nuhou.php
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The Hawai'i Superferry's potential impacts on humpback whales, cultural resources, and traffic – and its proposed corrective measures – are outlined in a newly released draft environmental impact statement for large-capacity interisland ferries.
Comments must be postmarked by Feb. 23 and sent to two addresses: Ms. Katherine Kealoha, Director, Office of Environmental Quality Control, 235 S. Beretania St., Suite 702, Honolulu, HI 96813. It should also be mailed to: Mr. Michael D. Formby, Deputy Diretor, DOT Harbors Division, 79 S. Nimitz Highway, Honolulu, HI 96813.
To download the draft EIS online, visit hawaii.gov/dot/harbors. Hard copies are available at all regional and selected public libraries and may be borrowed at the state Office of Environmental Quality Control at the address above. Paper copies are available for a reproduction fee by writing to: Belt Collins Hawai'i, 2153 N. King St., Suite 200, Honolulu, HI 96819, Attn: Ms. Lesley A. Matsumoto. Belt Collins will provide copies on CD free of charge.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 08:57:45 AM
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I have never seen a more blatant example of shutting the barn door after the darn horse done got out. All people were screaming for at the beginning was to have the EIS before permitting the ferry to operate.
Yikes. I always thought you supposed to take step two after step one, then steps three and four, etc. Not start at step five then go back to step one.
I do not wish to be cynical but it sure does look like somebody bought off somebody else. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 2:13:09 PM
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One constant throughout the world is that we ALL got the finest Governments money can buy.Cha-Chingggggg!
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 8:58:14 PM
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My 2 cents worth:
Several weeks ago and article appeared in our newspaper about a Boy Scout Camp in the Santa Cruz area, that had dams up in the river (for swimming holes) which were hindering the passage of fish. For those of you who do not know, some species of fish, like salmon, swim upstream to spawn. If they cannot make it upstream they don't spawn and the next generation of salmon does not occur. As with most things, it is the cumulative effect which starts to heavily impact nature. Take many rivers that are impassible and watch the salmon dissappear.
So after this story was published, some dimwit wrote a letter to the editor wondering about all the huhu, because after all, kids are more important than the fish. Basically, to hell with the fish, as long as our kids have a swimming hole.
People like that lose sight of the fact that we are all part of the fabric of life. Without other species, we are not the same. And as we become more numerous and more demanding of Mother Earth, more species will suffer because of our short-sightedness.
For heaven's sake, if something you plan on doing might impact other species, do a thourough study. Then figure out how to mitigate your impacts and maybe it becomes doable. What is the problem with actually considering the impacts you may have on this fabric of life?
Seems to me man was not the first creature on earth, but if we keep going as we are, we may be the last creature on earth.
OK, maybe more than 2 cents worth, but thanks for letting me have the floor, if only for a moment.
Julie |
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guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 9:36:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
I do not wish to be cynical but it sure does look like somebody bought off somebody else.
What I think happened is outgoing Governor Linda Lingle wanted to have the Superferry established as a lasting legacy to her time in office and she went above, beyond, and behind normal procedures to ensure that it happened.
Oops. |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2009 : 5:31:30 PM
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The entities who are most opposed to the Superferry are rental car companies and airlines- plus Young Brothers who make a lot of kala shipping cars, motorcycles, and produce between the islands.
Worrying that the ferry will spread weeds is absurd- and this from a dedicated environmentalist. We have planes and barges to take care of that already, not to mention birds and wind. Once a weed hits the islands, it reaches them all quickly. We need to worry about the weeds getting to the islands in the first place, not spreading between the islands- we can't stop that.
I have ridden ferries, high speed and otherwise, in various places around the world. I have always thought that this would be a good thing for Hawai'i. I really doubt that having a ferry will lead to more traffic in general- every car that comes over will be one less car that is rented. Do you really think people don't vist the neighbor islands because they can't bring their cars? They just fly over and rent one. More traffic by the harbor, less by the airport. It isn't like one ferry can carry enough cars, or unload them quickly enough, to cause a traffic jam or something.
Whales? A whale hit could severely damage the ferry. I expect they will be careful. There are certainly plenty of fast, powerful boats in the water anyway- one more won't make much difference.
I think the ferry will be a great thing for the Islands.
Chris
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2009 : 5:50:57 PM
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Uhh yeah Julie I AGREE The kidsz donʻt need ne swimming hole. Considering that salmon are an important part of the food chain that will have an effect up and down that chain and it ends with us usually. So a swimming hole for a handful of kids who are today engaged in a questionable enterprise such as the boy scouts are today I would say no to a lousy swimming hole. I got an email from a friend and there was an article that says the ferry is closing down. Too bad I agree with Chris, environmentalists in Hawaii have been misled about the ferry. It would have been a good thing to have. Right now the local population is held hostage by the barge company the rernt a car company and the airlines. As far as I could see most of the opposing arguments didnʻt hold water. I question why surfers got involved against this too. The smear campaign against the ferry was terrible.
Richm makes a lot of sense so donʻt fall into the hysterical argument that the islnd will be destroyed by the ferry. The islands changed since the first human landed and that includes Hawaiians. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 03/31/2009 5:57:56 PM |
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