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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:46:01 AM
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I understand what the issues are, Lawrence. I realize that the ferry owners cut a deal with the state to shortcut some kind of EIS process. They did not ignore the law as you claim. Most people claiming what you have said don't understand the difference between an Environmental Assessment and an EIS. They would rather celebrate their victory over a faceless corporate ogre than look for common ground to allow a compromise. I would like to state my two opinions 1) that some of the furor over this is based on hysteria and 2) that the ferry should be given a chance to run, perhaps with a modified operational plan, without being accused of advocating anarchy.
Jesse |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:54:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Notice it says "there is a great public sentiment in FAVOR of the Superferry.
Yes, but great doesn't mean majority and it also doesn't indicate who the people voicing that sentiment are. It would be interesting to see that statement elaborated on. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:59:36 AM
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quote:
They would rather celebrate their victory over a faceless corporate ogre than look for common ground to allow a compromise.
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Sure, that may well be true, and the Ferry itself may or may not be a good thing for Hawaii, and there certainly are some relatively good and responsible corporations in the world (but not this one). But these are NOT the issues that the Court determined. The court determined that the Corporation did indeed violate the Law, and must comply. It is as simple as that. It was not the environmentalists that first broke the law, (they followed correct procedure years ago) it was the Corporation. Certainly some of them broke the law by blocking Nawiliwili Harbor (and they could or should be arrested for such), but this kind of civil disobedience goes back to the (now venerated) icons of Martin Luther King and Mahatma Ghandi.
quote:
2) that the ferry should be given a chance to run,
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Sure, after they have obeyed the law, ceased operations (until after appeal - which would be the definition of obeying the law - i.e: not trying to skirt the law - which they are now trying to do... again!), and/or gotten the required assessment.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/10/2007 08:11:24 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 1:28:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapakid
I realize that the ferry owners cut a deal with the state to shortcut some kind of EIS process. They did not ignore the law as you claim.
HSF was willing to go through all legal hoops regarding environmental assessments - until the State told them that they would not be required to. Why wouldn't any business move ahead, rather than spend the time and money on the EA, if the governmental agency that oversees them told them that they were clear to do so?
It's the State that's on the hook for this fiasco now. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 2:37:47 PM
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I understand where you're coming from, Lawrence. We can agree to disagree on some facets of this dilemma. I don't see this ferry as a major cultural, environmental, sovereignty or safety threat. But there are definitely some issues to be resolved.
Jesse Tinsley |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 4:21:38 PM
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There is a lengthy article on the first page of the October 9 edition of the L.A. Times about the ferry and Kauai. It addresses the changes in Hawai'i caused by the influx of both tourists and new land owners and the longtime residents' responses. Try latimes.com for that date and hit the front page choice on the left hand column.
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 04:41:40 AM
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good article. Tanks eh sandy. If any of us is from one small town dat get choke tourist constantly coming in, and outiders trying fo move in, you can empathize wit da way da peeps on Kaua`i feel. Every time I go back to Hilo I look forward to da Hilo I left. BUT, every time someting stay different. Mo traffic, mo people, mo development, mo roads, sigh. Besides death and taxes da only odda ting dass fo shua is progress. You see it everywhere. Up hea in Woodland, get so much new homes dat wen come up in da past yea, selling ove $750K! Now, tell me, dat not goin change da dynamics of dis town. We lost so much farmland to da homes.
I'm glad dat da world is starting fo figgah out how us locals really tink. At least now, if people is aware of it, dey can try fo help and not make mo pilikia fo da kama`aina eh? |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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dr. cookie
Lokahi
USA
299 Posts |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 9:10:02 PM
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| E doc like I ,tried to say earlier two sides to every coin. Yin and yang no mo jus one side take all. Only the conservatives like do that. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 07:05:09 AM
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quote:
E doc like I ,tried to say earlier two sides to every coin.
Yep.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:47:51 AM
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I live on Kaua`i, so let me vent, 'kay? 
First question -- "What good is the ferry for Kaua`i?"
Neither we, nor any of our friends/neighbors, could come up with an answer.
Second question -- why no EIS or EA?
Because, according to all that's been said thus far, the governor waived it. Gotta wonder why...
Speaking for myself, I don't object to the addition of another mode of transportation here in Hawai`i. But the SuperFerry launch should have been delayed until after completion of environmental studies.
Too late now...the barn door has been opened.
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Auntie Maria
===================
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 12:37:30 PM
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quote:
Too late now...the barn door has been opened.
. Not necessarily so...
It can be undone through the ballot box, if enough folks are upset.
(but undoing a 39 to 11 vote would take a pretty big movement!)
I suspect that there will be plenty more heard from the protesters in any case.
This kind of reminds me of the political situation I observed in New York State when I lived there. Upstate New York (loosely defined as everything outside of New York City) was constantly loosing-out to New York City on power issues, water issues, environmental issues, etc., simply because "The City" had the great majority of votes against the rest of the state.
So is some of this issue "Honolulu vs The Rest" (like in New York)?
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 11/02/2007 06:41:04 AM |
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mahimahi
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 5:56:50 PM
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I usually stay out of politics because I'm too honest to be swayed by corrupt persons that just want to line their pockets...it's always one hand washes the other and you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
I rode the Superferry in late August on my vacation...boring !...too time consuming....and even for $10 round trip I felt as a tourist it was a waste of my time....I shoulda stayed at the Diamond Head Cove Health Bar and had the " Da Mana Bowl" over and over again !
If anything it hurts the the other shipping companies transporting a car from one island to another....It ain't really cheap if one pays full price...perhaps the airlines can see the SuperFerry as competition and lower their prices.
Sure it's another mode of transportation , but Kauai residents would have asked for a ferry years ago .
Where does the Super Ferry toss their waste ?
Who really benefits ?...it's known as "money talks and bullshit walks."...very simple indeed.
If people get really involved they'll take it to the courts and the elections....politicians will heed to the voice of the people.
I live in San Francisco and you can't even eat the fish out of the bay...the pollution is mind bogglind and just think if a spillage was to occur.
And it's already scary enough in the islands if any catastrophe was to occur ...why add to the potential future mishaps?
Eventually the SuperFerry may prevail, but not if the will of the people shine through and big business will think twice...I can see the SuperFerry dropping people off at Turtle Bay ...and speaking of Turtle Bay......
I can emphatize with da_joka and Auntie Maria. |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 10:00:54 AM
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It seems like if there is no public support for it and it is an unnecessary service, then they will go out of business. Their prices, in comparison to just flying and renting a car, are too high for most casual tourists to justify. I can't see a good reason for me to use the service.
On the other hand, besides transporting produce, I think it could be beneficial to some other outer island residents. I recently had a cousin move here to Oahu from Kaua'i for school and the time wasted and cost of them shipping her car and all her stuff could have been alleviated if she had access to such a service.
Is the pollution from planes any better than that of the Super Ferry? |
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