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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2007 : 01:01:22 AM
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Agreed about the ferry not being good for the islands. Also sorta agree (on a haole, non-local perspective -- it is the only perspective I have) no need to take car from island to island. Mostly true, but what if you are moving to a different island? May make it easier to do...i.e., theyoung adult just out of school starting job on different island, just setting up housekeeping. Easy to take one car, stuff him full of the things you want to move, and put him on the ferry. Same thing for students going to other islands for school/college.
Price is certainly WAY out of line though. I think that pricing is what will hurt the ferry if it does do all the things they need to do like the EIS. As expensive as that is, it makes more sense to fly. They have intentions of expanding to Moku o Keawe and plan to land at Kawaihae. Have they done an EIS for that location? Any effort on Big Island either fer or agin'?
What about the ferry to Moloka`i? I do not know anything about it, like how big or where it lands. However, I am certain that it is no where as gigundous as this super ferry.
Guess we have said all that can be said on the topic and beat a dead horse. Bottom line: it is definitely not good for the `aina, for the moana and therefore Hawai`i and Na Pua o Hawai`i. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 04:54:40 AM
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| In regards to transporting military vehicle, can't they do that a lot easier with the HIANG C-130's? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 05:48:37 AM
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quote:
In regards to transporting military vehicle, can't they do that a lot easier with the HIANG C-130's?
Most assuredly. And a whole lot quicker. C-130s, C-17's, etc. Matter of fact, when we went O`ahu in May, we saw a C-17 on Windward side, toward Kaneohe. An impressive machine, for sure (plus I inspected the landing gear when they were a new plane).
However, as far as the military is concerned, the move is afoot to contract out anything that is not inherently military by nature. Therefore, transportation can be done by non-military entities supposedly cheaper and more efficient and effective than having the military be in charge of it. Therefore, less tax dollars spent on military (on paper). Same pocketbook, just different pockets within.
Therefore, they can move stuff without having to own the cargo planes and the resultant crew and support staff and maintenance and overhaul. Easier and cheaper to contract with a ferry outfit to move the stuff.
PS: remember that National Guard works for the state, not for the feds (ha-ha...yeah right). |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 09/18/2007 05:50:05 AM |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 06:11:13 AM
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Yep.. I was in the ANG until a few months ago. (key word being was. . .) :) I remember transporting people and stuff inter-island by plane all the time.
The whole "militarizing the outer islands" thing seems a bit far fetched to me. What is the basis for all that talk?
On a side note... The crazy think is they are contracting out things that WERE military in nature (Blackwater) and errr that isn't going to well in Iraq.
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mokupuni
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 09:51:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Please forgive me for being naive, but if the people don't want it or if the people want an EIS prior to operation of the Ferry, then don't they have the power to get that what they deem necessary? The Ferry is a business and as such, they have customers or potential customers. No one will force anyone to ride the Ferry. Just say no.
Mahalo for you mana'o e wcerto. Perhaps if we look at from the perspective of building a 20 story hotel in your backyard, my logic will be a bit more clear. The hotel is a business, yes, and there are potential customers that can say "NO, I don't want to stay there because it is harmful to wcerto's backyard." But brah, the building is there!
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Regarding Liko's comments about military using the ferry to move Stryker units -- probably sounds like a swell idea to DoD. They now have a way to move stuff very easily from island to island without it being a cost attributable and allocable to DoD. However, absent the Ferry, they still have plenty ways of moving equipment. C-5As and C-17s are some mammer-jammer cargo aircraft. Helcopters (the infamous "sky crane" can move materiel. Many other ways. But like I said, since this Ferry was developed by private enterprise, Dod can reap the benefits of it without having to pay for it. That is a bigger Goliath to slay than just the consortium who runs the Ferry business. That is a powerful player in the game and may trump everything else.
Yes, you are correct that the HSF was developed by a private business. However, in my opinion, with great support from the military and state, aiming to have the military as a "major" customer.
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One other point, Liko. The video about the Dept. of Navy (Marines) using one of these ferries is not the one being used in Hawai`i for passenger transport. It looks as though the one the Navy is speaking about in the video was purchased in 2001 and has been in use for a while. It is what we in DoD call GO/CO - government owned, contractor operated.
Mahalo for the clarification. Do you think the model HSF has purchased is an improved model of the one shown in the video?
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Do any of you have opinions to share on how the Ferry could be handled in a pono way? A way to protect all the things we have seen have the potential to affect the entire atmosphere of the outer islands?
When you ask about handling the HSF in a pono way, are you referring to from this point in time? My strong view of the situation is that from the start, things were not done properly. It is very similar to the Mauna Kea situation. Private business, big money, they don't need an EIS because the overall benefit to humans worldwide will be greater than the harm done to Hawaii's sacred sites. Ka!
The first step to improve the situation is to have the EIS conducted.
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If your job was to make a way to transport folks economically and effectively from island to island without hurting the environment, how would you accomplish it? Can it possibly be done at all?
If I have any job, it would be to safeguard our natural resources, our kupuna, for the generations to come.
Mahalo for this discussion e wcerto.
Me ka 'oia'i'o,
Mokupuni |
'O au iho no,
Liko Puha |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 12:39:52 PM
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Loosely translated...if you don't play the game my way, I'll take my ball and go home.
I say, "Don't let the doorknob hit you where the dog shoulda bit you." |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 1:46:16 PM
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| See ya. Oh wait, this is politics...look like you're going to do the right thing but then suddenly come out of nowhere to do the opposite. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/09/2007 1:51:24 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 4:43:00 PM
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| Hey Retro - that link is all buss up. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 8:41:30 PM
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This is too bad. With all the threats to the Hawaiian islands, the land and the peoples, both kanaka and non-kanaka, everyone is blaming this boat for everything from destroying the environment to helping the military invade. It's seems it's been blown out of proportion. There could have been other ways to handle this, but environmentalists turned it into a good vs. evil debate, not a discussion on how transportation could function in the islands.
Jesse Tinsley |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 02:35:30 AM
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Here we are, mainlanders, many non-Hawaiian, debating what is or is not good for the `aina. The article citing above by Retro says the following, from a State legislator from Nanakuli/Makaha.
"Now we're in almost the worst possible situation, in that we're going to, as a Legislature, have to make the decision on whether we're going to overrule the third branch of government because there is great public sentiment in favor of Superferry," said Hanabusa, who watched the court proceedings over the Internet in the office of one of her aides.
Notice it says "there is a great public sentiment in FAVOR of the Superferry. I guess most of the articles I have rad on the topic were against the ferry, for many differing reasons. Certainly those who oppose the ferry have been quite vocal.
Is this a case of the squeaky wheel gets oiled?
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:08:26 AM
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quote:
but environmentalists turned it into a good vs. evil debate, not a discussion on how transportation could function in the islands.
It wasn't the environmentalist that make that distinction, it was the Corporation who ignored the Law requiring an environmental impact statement (and influencing politicians to go along with them). This is a fact (the ignoring of the Law) as now determined by the ruling Judge. (Unless you do not believe in the Rule of Law) It would have been far simpler and less costly for the Corporation to Obey the Law and comply with the legal requirements, but as is typical with a lot of corporations, they thought they were "above the law" (i.e. like Exxon, Enron, and hundreds of others going all the way back to the Carnegies) The legal fact may or may not change upon appeal, but I find it highly unlikely, as the Law seems very clear in this case.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/10/2007 07:17:02 AM |
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