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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2007 : 4:48:41 PM
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This is a carry over from the "what are you working on" thread in Hawaiian music where Mark mentioned various timings and meter. I thought it could be a subject on it's own.
Here is realy good example of 5/4 timing from Dave Brubeck, 1961.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZaEOXZubz0
Does any one know of other unusual timings on youtube?
I would'nt mind hearing a few.
I have never heard 7/8 for instance
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Bob |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 03:58:06 AM
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Brubeck and Desmond and Company recorded "Time Out" and "Time Changes", both of which had pieces with nearly every timing you can imagine. I have had both albums since original release. "Take Five" is merely one of them. If you really want to hear them, you don't need YouTube and it is unlikely that most others would have been on video. Why video anyway? There are clips on:
http://www.last.fm/music/The+Dave+Brubeck+Quartet/Time+Changes
and:
http://www.last.fm/music/Dave+Brubeck
Buy the albums if you really are interested.
...Reid |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 07:44:53 AM
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quote:
I have never heard 7/8 for instance
Bob -- go find a Greek restaurant -- the kind with lots of Ouzo, dancers and live bouzouki players. Try to ignore the belly dancer and start counting...
There are lots of ways to count 7/8, depending on the country and the region. Here are a couple of the most common (hint- clap all of the the beats rapidly, with each "1" louder than the others):
1-2-1-2-1-2-3
1-2-3-1-2-1-2
"Odd" meters are actually the norm in many parts of the world, particularly as you move east from Europe. (You can find Greek, Romanian, Turkish etc etc music all over YouTube -- but the food's better if you go to the restaurants.)
Things get massively complex as you move towards India.
Move into Africa and it's all about superimposing duple and triple meters (and much, much more.) Which is where swing comes from, by the way.
In fact, a good case can be made that the various claves (the rhythm, not the sticks) can be thought of as an odd time meter superimposed against a 4/4 pulse.
I'll leave that to you guys to figure that one out.
So, what's the connection to Hawaiian music? Listen to the way Sonny Chillingworth, Keola, and others use the bass sometimes ("Moe Uhane Slack Key" is a good example). It's the front end of the 3-2 clave. (Played on beats 1, the "and of 2" and 4 --- which can also be clapped as a 7/8 --- "1-2-3-1-2-1-2" -- see what I mean?)
Where did it come from? Ah, that's the mystery, ain't it!
Oh, like the old musician said: "Fun flies when you're counting time!" |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 09:50:36 AM
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Jack told me that he really learned to count while playing bass in a tambouritza band.
Ethnic and traditional music has the best food. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2007 : 2:57:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Jack told me that he really learned to count while playing bass in a tambouritza band.
Ethnic and traditional music has the best food.
That's where I learned to count. I find Balkan music (Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece, etc) to be some of the most exciting music in the workdSomewhere in the newsgroup (no can find 'im) I stated that, for a lark, my band, Gross Junction, back in the 70's, did "Jingle Bells" in 7/4 time ( 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 - there a lot of ways to divide 7's up - try it!). It was a kick! |
keaka |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 04:19:41 AM
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Ahh - now that we're talking about timing!!! If any of you ever get a chance to take a class or go to a concert of Bob Brozman's, Do It!!! He has an amazing presentation on timing. Those of us who've been at George's workshops on Maui have been very fortunate to have been exposed to it. Also, when I went to a concert last Spring that he gave at a "local" college, he touched on it as well. For those of you who don't know him, he is a scholar, a cultural anthropologist and a musicologist. He continues traveling the world and studying the music structure in India, Africa, the Seychelles, American Indian, Spanish...
And he has more energy and enthusiasm that's over 3 years old than anyone I've ever met. But timing - - amazing... |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 05:11:50 AM
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Nancy, you are so right about Bob Brozman. Since we live near Santa Cruz we have been lucky enough to see him locally a few times. He is incredible. I just wish he would stop traveling so much and stick closer to his Santa Cruz home. I'm not really serious. Just being selfish. He is truly an awesome resource and contributes a tremendous amount to us all via his enormous talent.
Bob, if you are out there, Mahalo for all you do!! |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 09/02/2007 05:13:10 AM |
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Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 07:36:38 AM
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| I love that Bob Brozman says he's into "island music," which is natural since he's from Long Island! I've also enjoyed his work with Okinawan artist Takashi Hirayasu. (My aunty from Okinawa LOVES their stuff.) I also love the fact that Bob used to carry Led's bags when they toured together. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 07:54:24 AM
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| Bob, if you are out there, mahalo for all you do.....and that includes carrying Led's bags!! |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:42:05 AM
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I don't know if Bob is here but he regularly reads and contributes to The IGS Guitar Forum over at http://tinyurl.com/3xrcws
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Dusty |
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jcfergus
Aloha
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 8:11:12 PM
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For a showcase of unusual time signatures and how they can be effective musically, check out the "Electric Bath" album by The Don Ellis Orchestra. It is modern big-band music originally released in the 1967 and it really swings. It also shows very interesting use of dissonance and was fairly groundbreaking in the use of non-typical instruments and effects like the sitar and quarter-tone trumpet, the Echoplex and electric keyboard. But is it jazz? It certainly isn't slack key.
The simplest pieces are in 5/4 and 7/4. There are others in 13/4, 17/4 and even 15/16. Try counting those out! It is an amazing album both technically and musically.
Jim
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Jim Ferguson
Roseville, CA |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 04:48:22 AM
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Hi Bob! 'Solsbury Hill' by Peter Gabriel the most famous song I know that is in 7/8. Did that ever get released in America? Perhaps not. Anyway, if you've heard it, then that's what 7/8 sounds like, and if you haven't heard it, and want to hear what it sounds like, then that's an example of a 7/8.
As I've said before, the first time I heard a Hawaiian tune or song, it was Mr Brozman that was playing it, in a small venue in the North of England. It's always a pleasure to listen to him, whatever he's playing. |
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