| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2007 : 05:26:39 AM
|
| You might get "high" if you take the low G-string into the barre. |
Bing |
 |
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 08:58:20 AM
|
| Thanks for the hint! I'll give that higher tuning a try without having to retune all four strings by simply barring the strings. (I suspect I'll leave it D-G-B-E. I tried out a simple slack key piece I wrote, and suddenly I feel as if my efforts at slack key ukulele, with this low G-C-E-A string set slackened down to D-G-B-E, have paid off. The sound is now more Hawaiian, and the tones much nicer for standard fingerstyle playing. I plan to get the fifths set from Aquila in Italy, and explore Mr. Hiram Bell's opinion with regard to future ukulele tuning being more consistent with that of the viola on my Baja "storebought" ukulele. I'm tempted to leave the other birdhouse I built tuned to standard G-C-E-A, in part to avoid awakening that resonant mode at low G. |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/10/2007 09:00:27 AM |
|
|
|
Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 09:09:03 AM
|
| We had a "high" G-String at our Open Mike last week. Someone called it a "whale tail". |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
|
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 12:42:02 PM
|
The fifth's set uses wound low G and wound C strings. The tuning is A-D-G-C as opposed to standard (in the U.S.) A-E-C-G. Aquila asserts that the strings are wound with a different metal alloy, giving them a brighter sound, so you can NOT merely swap the low G and C strings and adjust the tuning of the other two for low G with A-E-C-G tuning without getting a different tone from the instrument than you might wish (or do they just want to sell wound string sets along side standard ones?)
It turned out that my birdhouse ukulele wasn't experiencing a resonant mode at low G after all. The C string had moved out of tune overnight, since I just mounted it new the night before. The enharmonic (a word, Mark, which has the same effect for me as "re-entrant does for you") tone was making it stand out. I retuned it, and now have fallen in love with E-B-G-D tuning with a low G set of strings slacked to create it. (I wouldn't bother with that tuning if the strings were meant for that tuning and related tension.) The feel of the strings is softer and more inviting, like one hopes ukulele strings will be before one discovers how much tension and high action can affect one's fingertips. The tone, with all strings down three full tones, is now quite balanced, with all strings of similar loudness and the final strum of a chord causing the sound of all four strings to die out in relative unison. (I'm grateful Music Masterworks has its "voice to note" capabilities. If you can recognize the main tone among all the harmonics, you can tune a ukulele using this tool.)
Because my birdhouse ukulele sounds so much better due to its heavy construction with the slackened strings and E-B-G-D tuning, I hope the fifths set, given its wound low G and C strings, assuming it will work with my present nut slots, will prove to be a good move for the other ukulele. (I'll use the chord finder here and try to learn "Aloha Oe" strummed, then post a copy at my web site, in case anyone want's to hear the result, assuming I can get the strings to work.)
I'll still have the Baja concerto tuned in the standard manner. Its got nice projection and tone with its solid spruce top, and is a nice looking instrument. It would probably be a good slack key choice, but the high mass of my birdhouse ukuleles gives them fairly decent sustain and mid-range tone as well, probably why the low tuning works as well as it does with them. (The high tuning sounds nice on one of the two birdhouse ukuleles, but its still not as resonant as the other now is with the low tuning. I think I've found the tone that fits a birdhouse ukulele - one with lower tuning.) |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/10/2007 12:46:00 PM |
|
|
|
Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 5:28:38 PM
|
While I had pretty much committed to playing low G--like Iz and others--when I heard Jake and watched the teaching portion of his video--and now with things like "While My Guitar..."-- I really have begun to switch back and forth... a bi-polar ukester.
TREMOLOS are definetely easier and cleaner with high g ...
and the cluster, lead work of some players, and the voicings--i.e. Jakes finger rolls--create nice 2nds, 9ths and other "shimmery" voicings that don't translate with dropped g.
Now I need a second ukulele.
|
|
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2007 : 11:57:11 AM
|
| I like the low G string set because it lets me drop all three strings by three full notes, so I can use DGBE and DGBG for my efforts at slack key style music. If your nut slots don't permit one or more of your strings to buzz when plucked (rather than strummed) due to the low tension, the slackening serves to reduce the mismatch between a wound low G string and the other non-wound strings in terms of loudness and tonal duration (balance). It extends the tone of the non-wound strings. The wound low G still resonates quite a while, but it's not as loud initially tuned three tones low, so as it dies out, it drops below the audio level of the other strings, with their now longer resonant time. The result is much improved balance, and something that begins to suggest the slack key sound that I'm seeking. This is achieved without resort to electronic extension of sustain or an amplifier of any sort (using Aquila, Nylgut strings). |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/15/2007 12:00:08 PM |
|
|
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2007 : 12:37:29 PM
|
An irrelavant, distracting followup question for Kapila Kane, a true musician, if I may point that out. What is the difference between a 2nd and a 9th when naming a chord? If I play a standard guitar 032030, low to high, I've always called it C9. Is it? Or is it C2?
Jesse Tinsley |
|
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 07:28:12 AM
|
I am not a true musician. I am and always shall be an imposter, so what follows no doubt demonstrates my ignorance:
The basic tonal compostion of the C chord in its unaugmented major form is derived from the base note plus the notes a third and fifth interval above the base note. You can achieve the basic C chord as follows with a third interval being four semitones and a fifth interval being seven semitones of the scale.
Beginning with the base note, move four semitones up and seven semitones up to achieve the basic triad of the C major chord as follows:
C-C#-D-D#-E to reach the third, which is the E note.
C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G to reach the seventh, which is the G note.
The basic triad of the C major chord is then C-E-G, represented on a GCEA tuned ukulele (or more properly, an AECG tuned ukulele, consistent with 1st through 4th strings) as:
1 2 3 4 (string number)
A E C G (open tuning of strings)
3-0-0-0 equivalent to C-E-C-G.
The C2 and C9 chords are augmented versions of the C major chord, meaning that an additional note has been added in each case to the basic C major chord. For C2, it is the second. For C9, the ninth. The intervals for second and ninth notes in a major key are 2 and 14, respectively.
This results in the following notes derived with the base note of C:
C-C#-D for the second, meaning that C2 is composed of C-E-G-D (or in AECG terms, 5-0-0-0 in terms of the base position near the top of the ukulele's fingerboard.)
C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#-A-A#-B-C-C#-D, meaning that C9 is also composed of C-E-G-D, with the same fret positions for the base position of the chord on the AECG tuned ukulele.
In chordal terms, there is no difference in the musical composition of C2 and C9 as demonstrated for the major scale intervals. Both chords are identical, except in nomenclature, and could be voiced in a variety of ways. None of the technique demonstrated applies to minor scales, which have different intervals, and are most easily approached by simply referring to the associated key charts and selecting the notes above the base note of a chord corresponding to a minor key.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I am, after all, an imposter, but hopefully a helpful one in this instance. |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/16/2007 07:40:13 AM |
|
|
|
rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 08:26:35 AM
|
Actually, the 9th is a 2nd added to a chord which already contains a dominant(flatted) 7th. In the case of the Cmajor chord, this would be C-E-G-Bb-D. Similarly, the 11th chord has a 4th added to the chord, C-E-G-Bb-F. And the 13th has the 6th added to the chord, C-E-G-Bb-A.Why the Bb, when the Cscale uses B natural? These upper extensions, as music theory calls them, are built from the dominant chord of the scale. C is the dominant chord of the F major scale, which includes Bb. Think of 7+2=9, 7+4=11,7+6=13. If I have created more confusion than enlightenment, let me know, and I'll try to clarify it.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 09/16/2007 08:28:19 AM |
|
|
|
noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 10:32:28 AM
|
the answer is inherent to your discourse when you first stated "flatted 7th" thus Bb in C is a flatted 7th. As well as a C related chord in the key of F. Either way of looking at it is OK
I think Hapa was just kidding around too. Since we rarely if never see a chord name X2 just X9. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 09/16/2007 10:36:39 AM |
|
|
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 11:44:03 AM
|
Actually I know that the D note is the second as well as the ninth of the C scale. But which one should appear in the name of the chord, and why, was my question. Thanks.
Jesse |
Edited by - hapakid on 09/16/2007 11:44:53 AM |
|
|
|
noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 11:52:28 AM
|
| Ahh, I get it. Then rendezvous 's post might be the answer you looking for. Not to discount absolute's one either. It all math to me. But I can't count past 8 any way. 'Ekahi, 'elua ,'ekolu .'etc. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
|
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 12:30:56 PM
|
I'd like to know when the number designation after a major chord name ceases to refer to the note that is added to the basic, major triad. If this holds true for, say, D7 and C7, why not D9?
(This isn't a challenge, and I'm not trying to be a jerk. I am new to this, and I don't understand why the chord naming approach would suddenly become inconsistent above the augmented seventh. Why is it suddenly no longer built on the basic triad of the major chord? Why does it shift to being built on a different note base, and at what chord number does this happen? Is it above the octave?)
(I've been trying to learn to play twelve bar blues, and its based on chord numbers, which is why I'm studying chords. I just wrote my first blues song today. It sounds rather nice even on the high GCEA tuned Baja concert, which kind of surprises me, as I thought I wouldn't like the chiming ukulele tone with the blues, but I do.
In fact, I feel moved to write one after this:
"Oh, I went to Taropatch, and I got the answer wrong!
I said I went to Taropatch, and I got the answer wrong!
Made me feel so bad, I had to make up this song!") |
Thank you. |
Edited by - Absolute on 09/16/2007 12:59:36 PM |
|
|
|
sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2007 : 3:27:37 PM
|
To save time you should probably read this wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_symbol#Extended_Tertian_Chords
Anyways, I am not sure I understand the question, but basically a 9th chord means it is a dominant chord (1 3 5 b7 9). If noted 9, 11, or 13, it is implied that it is based on the dominant 7th chord (this includes values with accidentals as well i.e. b9/#11/b13 etc). It implies the dominant chord, otherwise we would have to write out C7 with a 9 11 13 instead of just C13 (which contains the notes C E G Bb D F A)
A sus2 or sus4 in which the third of the chord is replaced with the 2nd or the 9th. There are also chords notated as add9 or add11 chord which is based on a Major chord and not based on the dominant chord.
|
|
|
|
Absolute
Lokahi
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 06:52:08 AM
|
You mean as in a dominant sevent chord, as opposed to a major seventh chord? Huh? (See cave man in commercial for expression on my face...)
Okay, I read it over again. You're saying the "break point" for just adding the chord named to the major version of te cord is the 7th. Above that the chords are based on the major triad plus the seventh (making it a dominant seventh) as opposed to a major seventh plus whatever note is at the interval named, as in the ninth.
Okay, now let me ask that other question I've been itching to ask. Is the difference between a dominant seventh and a major seventh strictly a matter of adding one semitone to the note you would add to form the dominant seventh? (Going from D7 to Dma7 then is a matter of adding C# instead of C to the D major chord?
"Thank-eee" kindly for any response to this one. I hate wondering what all these weird chord names are all about, and this is as close as I can come to going back to school in a setting where I won't be surrounded by "real musicians" who roll their eyes at my questions in a venue where I have to watch them doing it! |
Thank you. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
