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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 09:34:44 AM
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Just a note...comments would be welcome.
After playing for a friend last week, it suddenly occured to me that players and listeners are on two different airplanes.
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Bob |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 11:26:54 AM
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So where does that put listeners who play? Or players who are listening? Can a blue man hear the white oak tree that didn't fall in the forest?
Wait--I think I hear one hand clapping. . . .
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 12:30:54 PM
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And BIG difference between C17 and Lear Jet. Or a B52 and an ultralite.
I see it as the listeners are your customers. Sometimes you gotta give `em what they are paying for. Depending on the customer, though, they always like you to show them the new products, too. They don't always want to see the same old thing in the store. Then again, sometimes they want the old stuff...remember penny candy, remember Moon Pies, Nehi pop, wax lips and Beeman's gum. Sometimes they like reminisce and capture the good feelings from long ago.
Hardest thing is to know your audience.
Tell us what your listener did or didn't do that put you on two different airplanes. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 2:36:49 PM
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Bob,
I think this is a very important topic. As usual it's gone to frivolity, but Russell put it best: quote:
So where does that put listeners who play? Or players who are listening?
Listeners are listeners until something better comes along. They don't have a clue. What matters most is: Are the people you play with listeners? Most of the time they are not. If so, they're not worth playing with. If someone is banging chords over your pa`ani and doesn't hear what you're doing, you can't share the music. You can't make music!!!
Dog |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 09/17/2007 2:42:06 PM |
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NANI
Lokahi
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 3:06:39 PM
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But I find it the most fasinating thing how different the sound is from above (ie as the player) compared to the sound of the same song coming from an instrument being played by someone sitting accross from you ( ie which makes you the listener)
So can we be a player and a listener. I think so, at least I often am. |
"A hui hou kakou, malama pono".
Nancy |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 3:14:32 PM
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quote:
players and listeners are on two different airplanes
Robert,
I really like the pun . . or metaphor, depending on how you want to read it.
Players are headed in one direction, finishing the song and enjoying themselves during the trip.
Listeners can be headed in the other direction, hoping you won't finish the song, and enjoying themselves during the trip as well.
So, as both are enjoying the music, they are in the same single dimension. However, both are heading in opposite directions and extending the plane of that dimension.
When the songs stops, they have arrived at the same destination, outside of the musical dimension and by different means.
Or you could just mean that players play to be heard. Listeners listen to understand. Neither has to enjoy the experience.
Aha, insight. When players listen, and listeners play -- we have a similar destination and mode of transport.
My head hurts. I wonder why I find it so hard to listen to my wife. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 3:21:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy
Just a note...comments would be welcome.
After playing for a friend last week, it suddenly occured to me that players and listeners are on two different airplanes.
Bob, what particular behavior sparked this realization?
Do you ever wish you could recapture that beginner's mind that you had before you began to play and study?
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 5:41:46 PM
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Every now and then some poor fool comes to me for a lesson. I often start with an activity that I also often do for my own enjoyment -- pick a note anywhere on the fretboard, or an open string, and play it -- just listen to it as it slowly "decays" - and do it over and over, plucking the string in different areas, with different attacks, using different parts of the fingernails/fingertips. Always just listening to the sound of the note, and of course its harmonics. Then do the same with a chord.
It is absolutely amazing how beautiful those wooden boxes can sound just playing one note or chord.
On another "note" -- my 1 year old was in his high chair finishing dessert and I picked up the guitar and was sitting next to him. He reached out his hand, so I let him strum an open G, well, I needed to guide his fingers to get a strong strum -- it was like an electric bolt going through his arm - he shot straight up in the high chair, listening and looking up and down at the guitar -- and after the sound died, he let out a huge gleeful shout -- and the next 10 - 15 minutes were filled with repeated strums, on different chords.
As I said, it is absolutely amazing how beautiful those wooden boxes can sound just playing one note or chord. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 6:07:48 PM
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| Raymond - Baby joy is about as pure and sweet and unencumbered as it gets. That is the great lesson we learn in raising children. You showed him magic. (and a good lesson on cause and effect). |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 8:53:02 PM
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As players, we hear from the reference point of what it took to get where we are, and what it will take to reach what we want from our playing. As listeners, the perspective comes from what was listened to in the past. The listener sometimes says "That was nice." after we play something that we thought put our heart and soul on the clothesline for all the world to see. They may respond purely to the sound of what we perceive to be raw emotion. Or, sometimes the lines we thought were funny went by while they were thinking of their day at work, or their kids' report card. Bob, is that on the right track? Seen it numerous times, even though I'm not really a regular performer. On the other hand, it masked some of my mistakes and forgotten lyrics, so it's not all bad.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 9:30:06 PM
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Sometimes when I play I wonder if anyone hears me. The people are milling around with their wine or beer talking to friends and the level gets to a point where i don't hear myself. I just go on and play to myself and not let the atmosphere at that point get to me. Yet, when I go on break people say how much they enjoy and appreciate what I was doing. This usually comes from what I perceived as one of the most talkative of the bunch. Then there are the ones who know about music they ask about the composition and how does my right hand do what it does, what kind of wood is my guitar made of, is it a custom made and so forth. The best listeners are the toddlers who stop in their tracks and stare in awe. I'm wondering if they are thinking I'm going to do that when I grow up. Then there are the grownups who stay awhile and get misty and they sometimes whisper 'that was my dad's favorite song. Thank you' I compare my personal experience with what I see on TV. Rock and roll is a little different the girls scream their heads off and you wonder if they hear anything at all. Sometime an audience has their own agenda and they are on a different plane. I've played concert venues where there so many people that you couldn't really read the people but I reached out. I was doing a wala'au 'ana (talk story) and the subject of food came up and guess what? Some people brought some of their picnic up to the stage and i joked 'where da rice?' Well it wasn't long that we had so much rice and sushi we had to give it others back stage so it wouldn't go to waste. These people were on the same plane I just needed to ask if they were.
I think that we can't be all things to every one but we can be ourselves and if people like fine if they don't fine. Listeners don't necessarily define us and our music and yes our expectations don't often match reality. So again the wisdom of L:edward holds true. No matter what jus press. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 10:55:49 PM
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Yes Paul, That's where I was coming from.
It's not so much that I was upset at the listener, but that I was puzzled at the lack of appreciation. Wow, I didn't like using that word but it will have to do for now.
I wonder what should be played for the uninitiated listener now. I tried Penei No, and Minoaka and did a good job but the reaction was very "vanilla". It was not all bad though, I was cheered wildly by Buddie Hollie's crickets at the end (just kidding--lol).
Maybe I should have tried Blue Hawaii or Tiny bubbles. Or something snappy.
There are a lot of professionals out here that might have a clue about how to start. Members that know from experience what works. What do you start with, and why?
Seriously though, now I know that I do not know what to open with.
Mahalo |
Bob |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 02:59:31 AM
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Bob, I think that there is a third (and maybe fourth)term that you are really talking about: "performer". Raymond and others have talked about responses of "audiences" (which may or may not include "listeners") in various venues.
"Listeners" implies an active participation - paying attention to the music. In most cases, I have always "listened" to a recording or live performer - or else I don't play the recording or stay in/at the venue. That is just the way I am, and does not have any value attached to it.
As a sometime "player", the quality of my listening has changed appreciably. Listening to all kinds of music has become lots more enjoyable and I appreciate what is being done much more. I guess this is sort of an argument for music education.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 09/18/2007 03:00:46 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 05:09:11 AM
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Yes Reid, you are right as well, but I don't even know how to perform CPR. :)
Wierd, the same situation is going to happen again tomorrow. A good ex-customer is going to stop by and wants to see my Mauel guitar. At least he has an interest.
I will probably do Penei No again and Ke aloha O ka haku, or something snappier like Puka Pants. I bet the quicker tempo's work beter.
Reid: Should I brush up on my dance steps and mention that I just flew in from Hawaii and boy my arms are tired? :)
I'll figure it out someday before it gets to be important. |
Bob |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 06:00:46 AM
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Seems to me that it depends on the event. If you're playing a cocktail hour, aren't you expected to be on different airplanes? That is, if you're background music, people are going to be talking, drinking, eating hors d'oeuvres.
Admittedly, it's nice to make some kind of connection with the audience. Upbeat songs sometimes help. Variety is definitely a good thing.
On a side note, I watched George Kahumoku perform cocktail hour one time. Through his masterful story telling, in a relatively quiet voice, he soon had the attention of an entire room. It was quite impressive to see. Must be powerful mana. |
Andy |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 06:20:23 AM
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| If you connect with one person in the house, then you have an audience. Most just want pleasant noise in the background. No fault of theirs. I don't follow sports, don't climb rocks and a host of other activities. The pizza of life is so big, no one can eat all the slices. I'm just happy that I can listen and play. |
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