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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2007 : 4:53:38 PM
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| Heyerdahl and others say that Polynesia was settled in waves. There was a thread here afew month back about the Hawaiians being genetically linked to Indians of the British Columbia coast. Heyerdahl cited name and legend similarity. History is usually dictated by the victors. |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 4:56:42 PM
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Reid, thanks for the cites on Kirch and Dye. In a cursory search I've found more on the former than the latter but they all count and will add up.
You sure are right about the wiggle room in versions of the past, and not only in Hawai'i. But that's our focus here, of course.
Sandy
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Actually, no archaelogist has ever found any evidence of earlier "people". Read Pat Kirch's stuff. In addition, Tom Dye (former HI State Archaeologist) told me that the probable initial jumping off point to Hawai`i was the The Marquesas, not Tahiti. Although, later *probable* communication with Tahiti complicates the picture.
There is enough unknown that people have lots of wiggle room in their favorite versions of the distant past (of every place, not just Hawai`i).
...Reid
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Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 08:45:28 AM
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| Wanda. That's how we learned our culture like every other group from the stories. Even the bible should be viewed as a story book. Every thing is based on something that probably happened. And our kupuna pass 'em down li'dat to all us mo'opuna. Remember also that not all kahuna was religious figures. They were the experts in all things worth learning and preserving to be passed on. Things like canoe building and fishing and net making and mid wifing and psychology. All the teachers were kahuna. So yes 'social ladder' acceptable 'caste' not a nice word.Mokupuni, thanks for the statement. Lots of knowledge not found in books are preserved by people like you. Are you the ka hiapo in your family? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 10/05/2007 08:48:13 AM |
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mokupuni
Aloha
30 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 1:03:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
Wanda. That's how we learned our culture like every other group from the stories. Even the bible should be viewed as a story book. Every thing is based on something that probably happened. And our kupuna pass 'em down li'dat to all us mo'opuna. Remember also that not all kahuna was religious figures. They were the experts in all things worth learning and preserving to be passed on. Things like canoe building and fishing and net making and mid wifing and psychology. All the teachers were kahuna. So yes 'social ladder' acceptable 'caste' not a nice word.Mokupuni, thanks for the statement. Lots of knowledge not found in books are preserved by people like you. Are you the ka hiapo in your family?
Mahalo e Noeau. I feel we all have our family histories to preserve and pass on. I still remember being told stories about my great-great grandfather, my grandfather etc, passed from one generation to the next. Our ancestors live in our memories through the stories.
'Ae e No'eau, 'o au no ka hiapo! Pehea la 'oe e 'ike ai?  There are definitely kuleana related to birth order. You know us hiapo, even though a task or chore may be given to a younger sibling, ultimately it falls upon the hiapo whether or not it was completed or done correctly, 'ea?
Re: Huna vs Kahuna
Here are some of my thoughts that completely agree with mana'o of Noeau.
To me, the term Huna as defined by a set of religious or spiritual
practices that is relatively new and *could* be western influenced.
In my research and experience, which is never enough, I believe the word "kahuna" is actually "kahu" + "'ana" Some that cares/guards/perpetuates is an expert on the subject of: (fill in field here)
Again, in my opinion, which is not widely supported, kahuna is the noun aspect of an action.
kahu 'ana = to care for
kahuna = caretaker
pi'i 'ana = to climb
pi'ina = incline
'ai 'ana = to eat
'aina = food/meal
alai 'ana = to obstruct
alaina = obstruction
We still have kahuna today, caring and passing on the knowledge that was passed to them.
Me ka ha'aha'a a me ka 'oia'i'o,
Liko |
'O au iho no,
Liko Puha |
Edited by - mokupuni on 10/05/2007 1:04:50 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 3:34:58 PM
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I have assumed the role of "historian" for our family. No one documented anything, even though my British ancestors and Paul's Italian ancestors had written language. Paul knows nothing of his history past his grandparents who immigrated from Italy. I can trace my family back to the 1500's in England.
Our cultures don't seem to care about the kupuna. When they are dead, they are gone. Out of sight, out of mind. Lose a lot of valuable information and history that way...through neglect.
Many similarities with the way I was raised in the hills of W. Va. and the Hawaiian traditions. One example is la`au lapa`au. My grandmother and my mother knew what plants to pick, how to prepare them for just about anything that would ail you. However, they picked the plants and herbs and stuff without regard for the `aina, without sking permission, without thanks.
I know for a fact that awa takes care of menstrual cramps, back aches, head aches and sleeplessness. Worked for me just swell after I fell at work and herniated a disc in my back. Modern medicines did nothing but make me dopey.
However, if the hillbillies in the hills had better love for the land, they would not have permitted the coal mining which has transitioned from pit mines to strip mines to blasting away entire mountains with explosives.
Liko - thank you for teaching us. Al, also. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 10:32:31 PM
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E Mokupuni Ua 'ike au i na mea e pili ana i na loina Hawai'i i ku'u hele ana i ke kula nui o Hawai'i ma Manoa a he Hawi'i au a no laila ua a'o au i kele mau mea mai na kupuna mai a'u i 'ike ai.
I also had friends who were first born who had many family duties to carry out and we would talk story about it. Mahalo for sharing you have an interesting theory. Are you going to do a thesis on it? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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