| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2007 : 12:53:35 PM
|
(edited to correct the info)
Here is some information I thought could be usefull to others.
Fran brought to light Naiant Omni microphones in another thread and it occured to me that these mics would be ideal for recording guitar on camcorders.
The MSH-1 (and a few other models) for instance works with low volatage and can be powered by the camcorder. That eliminates needing a 48V power supply (expensive).
Naiant also makes a dual XLR input/mini-streo out adapter that allows two MSH mics to be connected directly to the camcorder. So, for less than $100, you can get two good condenser mics hooked into to your camcorder for stereo recording.
This, of course will allow the mics to be placed close to the guitar/vocal source and the camcorder to be wherever you want.
|
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/19/2007 05:30:18 AM |
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 2:07:01 PM
|
| If you check Naiant's site, it mentions that the company will be introducing a brand new line of mics (the "X" series) in 2008 that will run off any power source, from a mic input on a camcorder to a phantom-powered input on a mixing board. If you're not in a rush to buy this additional flexibility may be worth the wait. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
 |
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 5:16:29 PM
|
cpatch- that is what I am going to do
and BTW
Correction everyone...
Sorry for the mis-information 
I thought I had it straightened out after a few e-mails with Jon,
but I was wrong about which mic can be used in the low voltage set-up.
It is the MSH-1 or the newer version of it (due in late January) that will work, not the MSH-2.
The current MSH-2 needs phantom power and will not work straight into a camcorder but the MSH-1 and the newer version of it will.
BTW He is out of the MSH-1's so I will wait for the new ones to be made available. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/17/2007 5:19:37 PM |
|
|
|
cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 11:03:56 AM
|
| Actually, the way I understand it, all of the new X-series mic models will be able to work with a low-voltage source. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
|
|
|
hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 11:41:03 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
Actually, the way I understand it, all of the new X-series mic models will be able to work with a low-voltage source.
Are these only available from Naiant's website? You got me interested in these, too (from the thread on the Zoom H4), but in attempting to comparison shop, it would appear they are only available directly from Naiant. Still, they are pretty inexpensive. I fear I need to pick a few up before they discontinue the MSH-1X early next year.
|
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 04:04:34 AM
|
Bill - only from Naiant. He is a low overhead operation. Reading his circuitry discussions in various forums (fora?), it seem he does it mostly for the fun and challenge of it. Get the proper mounts/attachment devices, too.
...Reid
|
|
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2007 : 08:07:19 AM
|
I am following up on the idea of using Naiant mics for camcorder recording.
I got the components for an x-y stereo to camcorder mini input today. In my set-up I used an x-y bracket, two Naiant MSH-1's, and Naiant's XLR-to-stereo mini adapter connected directly into my camcorder.
I had to set the cam input level manually, but it was easy to do and the results were excellent.
On my first try they worked exactly the way I wanted them to.
With the cam placed anywhere and the mics close to the guitar, the audio is strong and clear.
With this set-up, I can now make a good video with very good audio
It cost less than $100.
For those of you with camcorders thinking about making a YouTube video, this will work very well.
I may post a video of my step son and I playing Akaka Falls in duet just after christmas. |
Bob |
|
|
|
Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2007 : 06:42:31 AM
|
Bob, I wish I could restrain my techie side, but ... I can't. Since the Naiants are omni mics, the term X/Y really doesn't apply. X/Y miking uses coincident directional mics to build a stereo image while minimizing phase errors. With two omnis like the Naiant, the result is "two channel mono" - the two mics "hear" the same thing, so both channels have the same information. You can get a fine sound, but it won't be stereo.
Stereo miking with omnis requires some technique that generates a difference between the two mics. I know of three such techniques. A/B spaced pairs, with the mics 15" to several feet apart depending on the size of the source and the distance from the source. An OSS baffle (or Jecklin disc) works with two mics 6.5" apart, with a padded disc 12" in diameter between them. And finally, binaural miking with a head shaped sculpture holding the two mics at the "ear" location.
Sorry for the techical interruption,
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
|
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2007 : 09:08:53 AM
|
edited after a quick test:
Np Fran. I am a novice at recording.
I was thinking that one mic would be stronger on the left and the other stronger on the right.
I am recording a duet of two guitars and an x-y set up probably would result in a two identical tracks giving a mono recording.
If I change the arrangement, separate and place the mics close to each guitar, then I think it will result in a stereo recording.
Even if I am wrong again about getting true stereo, the audio will be very good anyway--much better than a typical youtube video.
Thanks for the correction.
|
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/23/2007 2:49:53 PM |
|
|
|
Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2007 : 3:34:30 PM
|
Using one mic on each guitar sounds like an excellent idea.
A true traditionalist uses two appropriate mics in a placement such as x/y hypercardioids, Blumlein bidirectionals, AB omnis, or ORTF cardioids to "take a picture" of an audio event. But it's much more common nowadays to use multiple mics to capture the instruments then mix and process the result to "paint a picture" of the event. Your idea of miking each instrument will probably be the best way to use these tools.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
|
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 02:09:57 AM
|
I am not not sure where to post this so I decided to do it here.
Here are links to two videos using the set-up that I have been discussing in this thread. The two mics are facing outward and can be seen centered in front of us on a stand. I think it works very well and I did get a good stereo separation this time. I added reverb and EQ'd the bass down and the midrange up. For those who will notice, the L/R tracks are backwards.
Akaka Falls: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qywzgJoP9cg
Tiare Tahiti: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxXntLlHxM4
Special note:
The guy playing guitar 2 is my step-son, John. We have been family since he was about eight years old. He has previously been a bass player in a metal band and his acoustic guitar interest just popped up about three weeks ago. I have never pushed it but I bet I had some influence on him :)
Since this area is not a hot-spot for slack-key, this is actually the first time I have ever played slack-key with anyone. I couldn't have guessed that my first would be with family. To say that I am happy about it is such an understatement! He is interested now. I had a great christmas. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/27/2007 03:55:15 AM |
|
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 05:30:59 AM
|
Bob,
Beautifully done! Simply listening to the playing while paying no attention to the mics/recording method is a sign of success. Thanks for sharing this wonderful, family, Christmas moment. You both did a great job.
You transported me back to memories of the Aloha Music Camp, 5 years ago. |
Andy |
|
|
|
brooklyn
Aloha
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 09:48:52 AM
|
that was so smooth!
I don't know much about microphones, but that sounded fab.
|
|
|
|
noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 2:07:10 PM
|
| E you and your stepson get da kine. I see what you meant about your seagulls. The mikes work great best sound so far from a home video. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 02:31:33 AM
|
| Bob - the music is absolutely beautiful! Mellow, peaceful, sweet. Thank you. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
