| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
 Posted - 12/29/2007 : 1:17:54 PM
|
I have been looking through a bunch of older and even archived posts about string geometries. Fran, in particular, has a lot of good information about wider string geometries but I am confused by the terms and hope someone can clear them up quickly for me.
Do "nut width" and "width at the nut" mean the same thing?
Do these refer to the guitar itself or the width between the outer most strings?
Same question with "bridge spacing". This seems to be more likely to be the width between the strings but is still not clear to me.
Lastly, width at 12th fret. String spacing or neck width?
thanks for any clarification.
Dave
|
|
|
Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 06:05:08 AM
|
Nut width and width at the nut are the same thing. This dimension refers to the actual nut, not the strings. The nut string spacing is another issue, and one that can be tweaked by a luthier (or even a player with patience) by cutting a new nut.
String spacing at the bridge is, as you thought, the distance from the center of the high e (or d in taropatch <GRIN>) to center of the low e, measured perpendicular to the strings where the high E crosses the saddle. It's difficult to tweak this measurement any noticeable degree on most acoustics.
The neck width at the 12th fret refers to the actual neck width.
These measurements seem to make a large difference in feel with only small differences in size. Until a few years ago I never heard any discussion of these measurements, except for the nut width.
I've been told that concern for these small differences is obsessive, and that I should just play the darned guitar, but my old computer-abused hands need all the help they can get and I would rather play a cheap knockoff with my preferred geometry than the most exquisite handbuilt with nut, neck, or bridge spacing too narrow.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
 |
|
|
salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 06:22:19 AM
|
thanks Fran for the clarification. I am starting to play a bunch of different guitars as part of a long search for my next one and I wanted to keep track of these geometries in a manner consistent with others (I note that martin gives all three on their pages).
I would have thought that the critical measurement at the nut would be the string spacing, not the nut itself, but, hey, that is why I asked.
Dave |
|
|
|
Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 10:08:36 AM
|
Dave, you will find that nut width is relative to string spacing. A wider nut width usually translates to a wider string spacing at the nut. The 1 3/4" nut is found on most OM size Martins, but only on a select few dreads of any make. That nut width seems to be standard for most OM size guitars. OM sizes of many brands also have 2 1/4 spacing at the saddle, or bridge.
Taylors (300 series and up), Seagulls, and as mentioned, a few select Martins, are some of the few dread sizes with 1 3/4 nuts. However, of this group, only the Martins with the wide nut have a wider than normal, generally 2 1/8", string spacing at the saddle.
Larrivee makes an "L" body which shape and size is kinda between a dread and an OM. It has the wider nut also. Haven't played one yet, but the concept has my interest piqued.
I should also mention that Larrivee makes a slope shoulder dread with 1 7/8" nut, which is crazy wide in the world of dreadnought guitars. |
What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
Edited by - Podagee57 on 12/30/2007 10:26:24 AM |
|
|
|
salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 3:44:57 PM
|
podagee
Very interesting. As there is a store near me here that has about 100 Martin guitars of various configurations, I will probably be able to find one with the wider spacings to try. Obviously the spacing will not be the only factor in my decision but at least I should be able to see if the wider spacing makes a difference.
My current dreadnought is a vintage takamine with a 1 11/16 nut and 2 1/8 at the bridge. I will be very interested to see how the small differences in nut width change the feel for me. Currently I notice it most on a song where I need to squeeze two fingers on adjacent strings at the 12th fret. It almost never works.
Thanks again.
Dave |
|
|
|
RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 02:39:32 AM
|
| Be sure to note that Seagull (most anyway) have one of the wider standard nuts at 1.8". |
Bob |
|
|
|
Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 09:14:07 AM
|
Interestingly, Martin custom shop orders include a specification for different string spacings within a single nut width. I'm not sure how long they've included this option, but it's been part of some discussions on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. In any case, it's the measurement that is the easiest to vary after the fact.
The 1 7/8" nut width on that Larry dread is historically accurate, by the way, if someone is trying to refer back to the first dreadnaughts. Martin and Santa Cruz have also built twelve fret dreads with this measurement in recent times. Martin's recent GE dreadnaught models, recreations of specific early models, feature 1 3/4 x 2 5/16 geometry. There was a trend in prewar guitars from wide spacing (1 7/8 x 2 3/8) for fingerstyle players to narrow spacing (1 11/16 x 2 1/8) preferred by flatpickers. The trend toward more offerings with wider spacing is fairly recent and very welcome to some of us.
And those Seagulls with wide nuts have very narrow bridge spacing - try before you buy.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
|
|
|
salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 12:51:36 PM
|
I cannot afford to buy one (>$5000) but I may try to play one just to say I did..... the Martin 000-28 "Norman Blake" is 1 13/16 nut, 2 5/16 12th, and 2 3/8 at the bridge. According to his web page, the local store has one in stock. I may have to put my house up as a deposit to put my fingers on it, but... we shall see.
I have so far only researched Martins... not because I neccesarily want to buy one, only because I have a close supply of a lot of them to try for spacing purposes.
All the other names are open to me (ie Seagull, Larravee etc) but I will probably try the spacing aspect on the Martins for expediency. Although i did note the last time I was in the store that there was a Washburn that seemed to have a very wide neck...
Dave |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
