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808bk
Akahai
82 Posts |
 Posted - 12/25/2007 : 4:53:47 PM
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Ok. Another of my stupid questions.
Do you learn from standard notation/lead sheet/tabs?
I'm trying to break out of reading tabs when playing learning slack key but having some problems. Funny thing is with ukulele, I have a hard time reading tabs, usually use lead sheet. Go figure.
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2007 : 7:55:08 PM
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Tabs can be a little easier when you use multiple tunings, as slack key players generally do. When you change the tuning of a string, all the notes on it relocate. In tab, the fourth fret is still the fourth fret. After you get familliar with a tunning, your ear starts to take over, and you begin finding things by ear. If you read standard notation well, you can begin working out your own versions from that as well. I haven't ever put the time in to get very good at reading notation. I'm slow when the notes go much above or below the staff. I don't know what lead sheets are.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2007 : 9:20:03 PM
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| i stay using tabs fo learning both ukulele and slack key. I really like um, BUT, it takes me a long time fo try figgah out da right chord forms to pick around on da ukulele. |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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808bk
Akahai
82 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 12:13:36 AM
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Paul,
Lead sheets have the melody line written in standard notation with the chords written above. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 05:04:45 AM
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| Not a stupid question at all. I've learned (still learning) from tabs, videos and from other people. Also, by listening to CDs. |
Andy |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 07:18:52 AM
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| I learn from tab and by ear, and use the notation for timing. |
Bob |
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gcolebeck
Aloha
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 09:40:02 AM
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I'm with tab all the way - I learnt classical guitar and to sight-read standard notation as a teen and can still do it to a degree, but I find that tab (especially with all the tunings here) has been invaluable to get my fingers in the right spot more quickly.
I use the standard notation for timing - oddly the bluegrass banjo tab I also use tends to have the standard notation timing included as part of the tab, bit like Ozzie's book too. That's pretty handy but you get used to kind of reading the two parts together... hmmm, maybe piano wouldn't be as hard as I've always thought!
I've never really heard much slack key (almost a sacrilege to admit here I know), only what's with Ozzie's book and on Mark Nelson's website (and the odd snipet allowed from mp3 websites) - still waiting for my imported Mastes Instrumental collection (seemed like a good start). My point is that I'm probably playing some stuff wrong (Moana Chimes for example - I've been spending the holidays with it and have been playing it failry straight, then I found a clip to demo from Mark's CD and found it to be in a shuffle type of rhythm which really took me by surprise) but I don't really mind because I'm loving the slack key sound that's coming out of my guitar and the style that I'm creating for myself. It might be wrong for some purists but it works for me.
So that's (1) tab, (2) standard for timing and (3) CDs for how things "should" sound |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2007 : 10:17:23 AM
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| I have a really hard time learning from tabs. Standard notation is a lot easier for me. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2007 : 03:51:31 AM
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I been having lead sheets for years, and never knew they had a name. I just thought somebody left the other part of the piano music off! I learned something first thing in the AM today.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2007 : 08:46:46 AM
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I think it is a combination of techniques, at least for me. I usually learn things by ear first, and will work through 'my version' to get the general feeling of the piece. Sometimes, if sufficiently motivated, I'll research the sheet music, or even the tablature to fill in or as usually is the case, to find a better way of getting through a particular passage.
I'm a big fan of learning a piece for its feel, not always a note for note copy of the original. (however, if you're going to play with others on the same song, you're going to need that note for note continuity in order to pull it off).
What I wouldn't do is fret too much over doing it exactly like someone else. It's not an easy thing to explain, but 'getting the feel' of the piece is very important. Once you've gotten proficient at the basics of the piece, you can always add to it as skill/technique become more refined.
Cheers |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 1:07:17 PM
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I have always learned primarily from tabs, especially when new to a style or techique. It helps to have the "put that finger right here" level of direction. Over the years I have gottten pretty good at reading tab, almost to the point of sight-reading it. I cannot "hear" music in my head from notation, as some people can.
Once I get a handle on the basics, I can start to pick things out by ear and noodling within familar shapes. I can read standard notation OK for guitar, but it's like reading text at a 4th grade level -- nothing fast or fancy. Lead sheets work well to get the song structure and chord progression under the fingers, with picking patterns and familiar embellishments following from there.
So basically I think there is something valuable in every method. If it works, it works -- use whatever tool is in the toolbox.
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 3:32:10 PM
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quote:
I found a clip to demo from Mark's CD and found it to be in a shuffle type of rhythm which really took me by surprise
Thanks for the plug.
But it points out the problem with learning solely from paper, be it tab or notation. There is no way to properly notate the rhythms as they are really played.
Sure, you can get something close to swing with a dotted eighth-sixteen kind of thing, but it is never that simple. I've seen horrendously complex scores with implied triplets and all kinds of wacky stuff-- when in actuality it is really simple once you hear it.
TAB is a great way to learn fingerings. As is standard notation-- but, for folk music (that includes slack key), nothing will replace learning to hear the music. As you just discovered.
Or, like the master said, it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. Doo wah, etc.
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 07:43:14 AM
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If you know all the chord positions and forms for the slack key tuning you are in and you are playing a song with lyrics, then a lead sheet is all you need to play and sing with others. You can usually fit an entire song on one page, can glance at it when needed, and sing along without having to memorize the lyrics and chord transitions. Then you can improvise on your own and add in your own personalized turnarounds as you see fit. George Kahumoku Jr. hands out Lead Sheets to songs at his workshops and camps. His method encourages people to play along together and to enjoy the music without being tied to a strict note-for-note arrangement.
However, if you want to learn a very specific arrangement of a slack key fingerstyle song, for example Keola Beamer's arrangement of "Pua Lililehua" as performed on his "Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar - In The Real Old Style", then you can either attend one of his workshops, watch his online video http://www.kbeamer.com/?q=node/40 or read the tablature while listening to the song on the album. Straight tablature without the attending standard notation will be difficult to follow due to the lack of timing and note duration in the tablature. Most tablature for purchase (like those excellent songs on Mark Nelson's Web Site) have the attending standard notation directly above the tablature which gives you the additional musical information to make the task easier.
As most of us have figured out -- there is more than one position to play a specific note on a guitar fretboard. Tablature gives you the specific positions on how the arranger was able to create a string of notes that were either easy to play or created a tonal palette they wanted to work from. With just standard musical notation and a good knowledge of the fretboard you can create your own way of playing the notes in any fretboard position you choose - you are not limited to the singe note position as show on the tablature. This is where the classically trained guitarist has an advantage.
The bottom line is all three types of representaing music on paper are good and are useful in different situations. The serious student of slack key should be willing to learn from and use them all to their advantage. The purpose of any musical notation on paper is to make it easier for you to learn, remember, play, and perform the song of your choosing. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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