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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2008 : 01:01:18 AM
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Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
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Originally posted by keoladonaghy
When you have spoken with as many native speakers and listened to as many recordings of native Hawaiians who were born while the Hawaiian monarchy was still alive, as some of us who speak "university Hawaiian" have, comments such as '"I wouldn't worry about "recreating the Hawaiian language accurately"' seem ludicrous. There is variation, yes, as there is in any language. But there are some aspects of grammar, pronunciation, and phrasing that are amazingly consistent.
In the post I modified above (which caused great confusion to ypochris) I expressed concerned that the correct use of the language on a Hawaiian music CD is of critical importance because that CD is going to be on store shelves and in libraries for an eternity. If these are the only exposure to the Hawaiian language that some ever have and then they go off singing these sings, we will only perpetuate the laziness and inaccuracy.
I love every one of my vintage Hawaiian music recordings. But because of what you describe here, Keola, I have had to learn many songs twice - because I could not reconcile what I heard on the record with what was printed in liner notes (many of which did not have `okina and kahako in an earlier time, either). And then there are the discoveries made through serious research that tend to be ignored. Keola, you made one such revelation that I live and die by now. One of the staples of my repertoire has always been A`oia. Most people sing this...
Na`u oe, na`u `oe e lei
But from examining Uncle John Almeida's original manuscripts and recordings, Keola discovered that the composer actually intended this...
Na`u oe, na`u no e lei
Now when I sing it correctly, people I am performing with look at me like I'm crazy and go so far as to tell me I'm wrong. When I explain the above recent discovery, the usual response I receive is apathy. "Well, we're used to singing it this way now."
In another thread on this forum, we bemoan the fact that liner notes are incomplete when they lack lyrics and translations and the additional expense that goes into creating these responsibly. I contend that if the artist does not speak Hawaiian, the money that might be used on liner notes would be better spent having language experts proof the sung Hawaiian on the CD and having the artist correct the mistakes on the CD before it gets into libraries and store shelves.
With no disrespect intended to any particular artist, we could spend days listing some not so comical inaccuracies in modern Hawaiian music recordings.
On a popular version of Pauoa Ka Liko Lehua by Kapena that I hear on KINE daily, they insert some unexpected beef jerky:
I ka lawe ha`aheo a ka pipikaula
(That should be ka kikala.)
On a version of Ipo Hula by Kai Ho`opi`i (son of a singing legend mentioned elsewhere here), he sings:
No ke aloha pili paha
Pili hemolele
(That should be hemo`ole.)
And with apologies to Ken Makuakane (who produced this one), I don't believe there are two correct words in a row on Analaikalani's version of Ku`u Sweetie.
How do recordings with such grievous errors of language get nominated for Na Hoku Hanohano Awards? If we continue to reward this, it will continue to happen.
Any members of HARA on here? E Bill, that's an excellent question. I hope someone will consider answering it. |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 02:01:38 AM
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Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Any members of HARA on here? E Bill, that's an excellent question. I hope someone will consider answering it.
There a few, including Auntie Maria, Keola, and myself (and probably a few I don't know about).
Recordings that are entered for Hoku Awards are not adjudicated. They are voted on by the members of the music industry in Hawai`i. Many of these speak the Hawaiian language these days while a great many more still do not. Regardless, the members of the Academy are not given criteria to use when selecting their picks in each category. So language can be completely ignored by the voters.
There are some adjudicated categories such as "Haku Mele" in which language experts decide upon the best new Hawaiian language composition of the year.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 07:43:26 AM
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Originally posted by keoladonaghy
. . .I hear this all the time - regarding older folks not doing well in classes because they "heard" things differently when they were younger. In the spoken realm, sometimes it's true and sometimes it's not. I know many elderly Hawaiians who did not get the language passed to them by their parents but seem to "remember" what they sounded like. In a couple cases we actually have tapes of the family members and what they sounded like and the person's recollection did not align at all. In other cases, as you suggest, it has to do with regional differences. . . .
Aloha e Keola,
I know what you mean here - My grandfather was a Native Speaker, from Hanapepe, and so my ear is always "looking" for the accent, poetry, and musicality of his voice, which I do not find in very many of today's speakers. But sometimes what I think I remember and what really happened are two different things!
There is such a big difference between dialect/regional differences and just plain wrong. To me, it is like Southern English and Yankee English - "Y`all set a spell," has a grace and beauty of it's own, and "Please, have a seat," is also kind and welcoming. "Lie you're self down" is simply incorrect, though kindly intended.
I like the older, more descriptive phrases, rather than the Hawaiianized English terms I hear today. For example, my motorcycle will always be a "lio-hao li`ili`i," not a "mokokaikala," to me. Whether that was an old term, family term, or a Hanapepe term, I don't know. But I think it is romantic, and not incorrect, so I use it, but I would not "correct" someone who said "mokokaikala" to me.
When composing songs, poems, chants, or anyting else in `Olelo Hawai`i, I try to get proof-reading from three points of view - A kupuna who is a native speaker, a university-trained speaker, and a "kanaka-in-the-street" speaker. I figure if all three can figure out what I am trying to say, I have hit my mark!
My next step is to simply put it out there and be ready to catch whatever slings and arrows come my way! They are then evaluated, and I may or may not "tweak" the composition.
I find that, as desireable as it might be to have the "Big Guns" verify one's `olelo, because they are so esteemed and there are so many demands on them I feel uncomfortable taking up their valuable time. If I were a "name" musician with a huge listening body, then perhaps I would feel that my words had enough influence that it would be worthwhile to ask them. But I am not. So I do the best I can with the resources who have been so gracious to me thus far.
To me, what is important is that we each keep learning and growing. I have come to accept that my `olelo will never be perfect - in any language! If I wait until I am perfect, then I will do nothing. Instead, I do my best. And if I learn I have made a mistake, I do my best to correct it. If I make a recording, and learn I misspoke something, then I learn to do it right, and the next recording will be better.
I was blessed to have recorded a few things my tutu kane shared on cassette tape, and was able to listen to his voice some years later. I do wish I had access to the technology to digitize those tapes to the more lasting formats now available, but the tapes have long since fallen to Hilo's famed mildew.
Today, I am blessed with a wonderful mother in law who was a native speaker. Though she spent 30 years away from her mother tongue, and has forgotten much vocabulary and some grammar, her musicality, her inflection, and her phrasing take me back to being a small child sitting in my tutu kane's lap. The accent is different. She is from Kohala, and he was from Kaua`i. But the feeling is similar.
I think your suggestion is wise, that people study the formal grammar and constructions, and then speak with as many native speakers as possible.
And, if you want to mke any comments on my own `olelo, please feel free to do so!
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 7:12:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Any members of HARA on here? E Bill, that's an excellent question. I hope someone will consider answering it.
There a few, including Auntie Maria, Keola, and myself (and probably a few I don't know about).
Recordings that are entered for Hoku Awards are not adjudicated. They are voted on by the members of the music industry in Hawai`i. Many of these speak the Hawaiian language these days while a great many more still do not. Regardless, the members of the Academy are not given criteria to use when selecting their picks in each category. So language can be completely ignored by the voters.
There are some adjudicated categories such as "Haku Mele" in which language experts decide upon the best new Hawaiian language composition of the year.
I'm on the board of governors so can comment. Haku Mele, Hawaiian Performance, Liner Notes, Graphics and Engineering are the adjudicated awards. We're in the process now of organizing those committees, as well as the selection committee who makes sure (usually) that the releases get put in the correct categories.
All of the other categories are open to all voting members in the preliminary round. This explains how some recordings with questionable lyrics and pronunciations can make the final ballot in, say, Album of the Year or even Hawaiian album, but not make the final cut in Hawaiian Performance or have a song in Haku Mele.
Haku mele (I'm co-chair) is very tricky because everyone has their opinions of what is important in the compositions. The members of the committee general come from a broad spectrum of people with varied backgrounds, so no one perspective should have a big advantage over another.
We do need greater transparency and understanding of how those committees work. Kenneth Makuakane and I coordinate the HARA newsletter, and I've asked the chairs of each of those committees to write a short explanation of the process that the committees use, as most of the membership don't even know. This will be printed in an upcoming newsletter. If we (the board) want to see improvement and growth in these areas, then the artists, producers and other contributors should know what we are looking for. It's one of my priorities during my tenure on the board. It may sound like I'm running for re-election already, but I have a year and a half to go ;-) |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 02/08/2008 7:16:11 PM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 07:14:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138
Any members of HARA on here?
There a few, including Auntie Maria, Keola, and myself (and probably a few I don't know about).
...and me, also a voting member of The Recording Academy. |
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