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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2008 : 12:34:39 PM
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I was watching Pakele last night and at one point Shaun Reyes paused between songs to "talk story", mainly because he said his left hand was cramping and it needed a break.
Since I don't play an instrument, I have no idea of the stresses that working musicians put on their bodies, primarily their hands. When I look at Led Kaapana or Makana or Bob Brozman, as some examples, I can only shake my head and wonder what their hands must feel like after a concert. What is it like, physically for you men and women who entertain us?
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"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 02/08/2008 12:35:13 PM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1580 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 1:23:04 PM
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In my own experience, I quit playing guitar for a number of years largely because my hands gave out. I could no longer play barre chords and double stops for three hours, or even for 20 minutes. The much lower technical demands of slack key (at least at the level I play) enabled me to begin playing again - gave me back my musical life.
Modern instrumental pedagogy focuses a lot on avoiding injury, but repetitive stress injuries are always lurking.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 1:29:37 PM
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Fran, as you know, I've seen you play. And I look forward to seeing you play again next Wed at Don Q's. I would never say your level of play is "lower" in any way shape or form. And I got the CD to prove it!!
And the video |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 02/08/2008 1:36:48 PM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1580 Posts |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 5:37:12 PM
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One of the reasons some of us harp on the "technical" side of how to hold the guitar, placement of hands/fingers,etc, and all that stuff is that a lot of people harm themselves inadvertantly by poor ergonomics. It's the same with keyboarding -- you could do it in a way that shoots your wrists to hell, or a way that increases the chances of not harming yourself and, therefore, lengthening the time you can play.
I'm just reading some stuff about Andres Segovia, the classical Maestro -- he played everyday, a minimum of 3 to 3 1/2 hours well into his 80's without carpal tunnel. Good technique. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 7:52:37 PM
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| Bill Tapia comes to mind also. One hundred and still going strong. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 05:42:47 AM
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Paul has had surgery to release his nerve for carpal tunnel syndrome in one hand and he really needs to have the other one taken care of as well. How much it is due to guitar and banjo and dulcimer playing and how much is from being a mechanic and using air powered tools, I do not know. I would suspect that vibrations from using the power tools is more detrimental than making sweet music. What I do not know is how he was able to bear the weight of his old 12-string EKO guitar with all that epoxy finish. It weighed a TON! And his banjo weighs a ton, also too. Music is not for wimps, I guess.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 08:11:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by markwitz
I was watching Pakele last night and at one point Shaun Reyes paused between songs to "talk story", mainly because he said his left hand was cramping and it needed a break.
Since I don't play an instrument, I have no idea of the stresses that working musicians put on their bodies, primarily their hands. When I look at Led Kaapana or Makana or Bob Brozman, as some examples, I can only shake my head and wonder what their hands must feel like after a concert. What is it like, physically for you men and women who entertain us?
I did not relize how much stress the thumb is under when playing until I broke my left thumb in a fall about three weeks ago. No guitar or `ukulele for me for too many weeks. :-(
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 8:16:41 PM
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Ouch Leilehua,
Hope you didn't break your thumb falling off your bike! Because then other things would hurt as well...
Funny how all things in our bodies work together for the whole, and we never find out until one or more pieces of the puzzle are taken out of commission. When you think of it, really, it's a miracle babies are born with ten toes and ten fingers an all that stuff.
Take it easy, sit in your beautiful living room with that fantastic view, and rest!
Aloha nui loa, Julie |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 04:44:32 AM
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The finger tips and wrist get the worst of it with me. My fingers are grooved and get tender after a while. Sometimes I get a zinger when I jump to an awkward chord and I have to let it go. I also got tendonitis from playing too much once.
The trouble began when I went acoustic and started using medium or light strings. My goodness, how in the world does anyone manage to play 12 string??? |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 02/10/2008 04:45:18 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 1:33:13 PM
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| Usually the grooved fingers are the result of pressing down too hard. You might try to experiment with how little/much pressure you actually need. Check out the height/action. |
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Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 5:27:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Julie H
Ouch Leilehua,
Hope you didn't break your thumb falling off your bike! Because then other things would hurt as well...
Funny how all things in our bodies work together for the whole, and we never find out until one or more pieces of the puzzle are taken out of commission. When you think of it, really, it's a miracle babies are born with ten toes and ten fingers an all that stuff.
Take it easy, sit in your beautiful living room with that fantastic view, and rest!
Aloha nui loa, Julie
Mahalo!
No, it was not on the bike. It was a much more boring incident. I was planting a lemon tree on the hillside. I am hoping the roots will help stabilize the slope. It needs stabilizing. It gave out from under me. I broke my hand grabbing the stone wall to keep from falling about 10 feet. I hit the stones and grabbed so hard that most of the bruising appeared on the BACK of the hand, not the front! Fortunately, my hands are so callused that there were not many cuts. (Note to self: Next time, WEAR the gloves, don't decorate the tool box with them!)
Yes, our bodies are amazing self-healing, self-replicating machines! I am always in awe of Ke Akua's complexity! Also. . . .
Goes to show how strong playing guitar can make your hands - That was 180 pounds caught and held by my left hand!
But interactions with people during the healing have been kind of like when people notice the skin graft and scars on my face - "OH! You finally dropped your bike!" The one guy who did NOT say that said, "You wahines need to learn to drive, and NEXT time wear your seat belt!"
No. I had skin cancer.
Sigh . . . . .
I do appreciate the concern and caring, I am SOOOOO very blessed that people have so much aloha for me.
But sometimes I wonder if I am doing something to come off as a total dingbat or a really bad driver, becase so many people make the assumption that I am always getting into crashes! :-)
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
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Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 07:24:37 AM
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Leilehua, I think most people just assume motorcycle riders are reckless. I remember hearing that trial lawyers will not seat other motorcycle riders on juries in cases involving motorcycle accidents, because even other motorcycle riders think motorcycle riders are reckless! (I work at a law firm.)
In an effort to bring myself back to the topic, I find the most wear and tear on me is on my fingernails. I strum as much as I fingerpick my `ukulele, and during one mammoth kanikapila last year in Yakima (about 10 hours, but that included kaukau breaks), I wore the same spots on my fingernails down so much that they were brittle for about 6 months until my nails grew out. Luckily, I get fingernails from my dad's side of the family, and our nails are as hard as our heads. My shoulders and forearms also ached.
I've seen Jake Shimabukuro rotate his arms between numbers, like Ichiro winding up to take a pitch at the plate.
A friend of ours who does lomilomi has warned me to massage certain spots on my arms and shoulders after playing to avoid soreness, which will only increase otherwise as I get older. |
Edited by - Momi on 02/12/2008 07:30:02 AM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 09:10:28 AM
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Well I might as well chime in too. Leilehua, howzit? was nice meeting you in Hilo. I did'ntknow you was injured. I enjoyed your program. The video said 5 mea no'eau but you only showed one. my wahine and keikamahine left asking who d oddah foa guys? But no matter I went to meet you and I did. Have fun planting!
Interesting to know that others have a hard time holding the barre. I do too so kiho'alu is good cause can use half barre and stuff like that. but to change keys readily I use standard tuning. So sometimes I still have to barre. I met Sonny Lim and he can play many keys and stay in tuning. For him it doesn't matter if he is in Taro patch G or Bb or what ever. He just plays. He must have strong hands since he plays for pleasure at home after a gig. If there is someone to emulate it would be Sonny. I don't have any tricks to offer to protect the hands and stuff but the idea of good position and technique cannot be over stressed. I wonder how rock guys do it when they hang there guitars 6 inches below there belt line. their wrists are like 90 degrees most of the time. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 02/12/2008 09:26:09 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 11:04:05 AM
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Al, rock guys have strings that are about the size of spider silk. A child can (and many do) fret them easily. Those guitars also have super low action, *usually*. Besides, since they are mostly young, they can do many bad things to their bodies and still function for a very long time. If they stay at it for a long time, their bones and joints "remodel" to assume the habitual position, and stay healthy. Only us old folks gotta be careful. Holding a guitar at around waist level, with fretboard up near shoulder, while standing and using a strap, is fairly good ergonomics. I wouldn't recommend doing a split at the same time, though :-)
...Reid |
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808robertr
Akahai
72 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 3:40:41 PM
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| i'm basically a 12 string player with short fingers...go figure! i'm basically a rhythm player and by the end of the gig or rehearsal my fingers are so shot. don't even think of asking me to play a barre chord or playing in the key of F...lol. that's why i came back to slack key, for its richness in tone and playability. |
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