| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2008 : 4:40:11 PM
|
As someone interested in etymology, I've always been curious about the word "Aloha". I don't know anything about the etymology of the Hawaiian language, which is pretty recent in anthropological terms, since the Hawaiians only landed in Hawaii a few hundred years ago, presumably having rowed there from other areas of Polynesia.
Looking at the word "Hello/Hallo/Hullo/Hollo" in English, dictionaries vary in their derivation. The most usual seems to be that it came, as did "Holler", from the French "Holà", literally "Hey There", which also shows up in modern French "Olà" and Spanish "Hola", both used over the telephone, and "Olé". I discount this. Until the 1700s/1800s the usual greeting in England would have been "Good Day" or "Well Met". "Hello" only appeared in the English language after the discovery of Hawaii, and I suspect, as do others, that "Hello" is derived from "Aloha", at the time when things Hawaiian were trendy in England, and, as such, is one of the few Hawaiian words to have come into the English language.
|
 |
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 5:48:45 PM
|
Actually quite a few Hawaiian words are commonly used in English, at least as it is spoken in the U.S. Mahimahi is one of the most recent examples; most people would think that they were eating a mammal if you told them it was dolphin, which is what the fish was called in the U.S. up until about 25 years ago. Ahi is becoming common for fresh tuna, as tuna fish is considered a low grade, canned product. An ukulele is a common instrument, and we had a luau at school when I was a child in California, where we ate poi and wore leis.
My father is into etymology, and could give a hundred examples, I'm sure. For example, any Hawaiian word used with an "s" on the end, such as "leis", is an English word. Since the people of Hawai'i speak in English, all of the words in common use there could be considered a part of the English language.
Great topic!
Chris
|
 |
|
|
Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 7:04:01 PM
|
The Dutch & the Norwegians say "hallo." Some think "hello" developed as a contraction of an old English phrase such as "whole be thou."
There's a transcript at http://www2.cs.uh.edu/~klong/papers/hello.txt that might interest you, regarding Edison's "invention" of the word, to use when answering the phone (versus Bell, who preferred "ahoy, ahoy"). |
|
|
|
Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 7:49:15 PM
|
Got my doubts about aloha->hello. Aside from the unlikelihood of the syllables being reduced and reversed on adoption, there's the fact that hallo/hullo traces back to the 16th century in English as an attention-getting utterance (not a greeting). The rise of "hello" as a general-purpose greeting seems more American than Brit (the usual accounts point to its use on the telephone), and I wonder whether the popular awareness of Hawaiian words in England would have been strong enough by the 1880s to account for such an adoption.
About Hawaiian being a "recent" language: From what I've read, Hawai`i was settled by 900-1000 C.E. For a linguistic perspective, the language spoken in Britain at this time by the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, & co. was actually a family of West Germanic dialects that we now call Old English, which is pretty much impossible for a modern English speaker/reader to understand.
That "be thou whole" hypothesis doesn't pass the ear test, either. The Old English phrase is "waes thu hael" (or, as my Anglo-Saxon prof would have preferred, "wæs þu hæl"). "Hæl" sounds like modern "hale," which is its modern equivalent. I'm not sure how we're supposed to have gotten from that mouthful to "hello."
|
Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/21/2008 8:06:03 PM |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 04:01:00 AM
|
Russell, how did you get the thorn to print?
...Reid |
|
|
|
Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 07:42:16 AM
|
Ha! Cut-and-paste from the edit page of the Wikipedia article on the history of English. If I were a real medievalist (instead of one with a low-mileage 33-year-old Ph.D.), my system would have an Anglo-Saxon font with all the trimmings. Instead, I collect Hawaiian characters for my Word Perfect setup.
|
|
|
|
Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 11:04:20 AM
|
 Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I am not an expert in Hawaiian Culture or Language. But this is what I remember from a conversation with an admired Kumu in Hawai'i.
Aloha is a formation from two words, "alo" and "ha". Where "alo" refers to the face and "ha" refers to breathe or exhale. An observation made is, that someone that is breathing is still alive and someone that is not breathing is not alive; breathing is closely linked with life. The traditional Polynesian greeting was to align the faces or bridges of the nose and forehead and exhange breath from the nose. This exchanges the sacred breath of life between two people. In a last embrace it may be to exchange one's spirit with their chosen offspring. Since this practice was used in many settings, a greeting, a passionate greeting, a sacred greeting, the term Aloha has many meanings depending on the context but was usually a form of greeting to exchange a very personal part of thier life (or life force, you could say) with another person.
Interestingly, the term [ha'ole] is a similar word, a formation of "ha" and "'ole". In this case ['ole} means without/lacking. The observation of the Hawaiians was that the first Europeans did NOT exchange the breath of life in a greeting, they shook hands, kissed on the mouth, or kissed on the cheek -- exchanging breath would have been very out of character. So the first Europeans were described as Ha'ole -- lacking breath in greeting. But this description and distinction had deeper and more profound implications. It became a singular and VERY CLEAR difference between the two cultures.
To the Hawaiians the difference was critical, basic, and obvious. This singular observation described in succint detail the very basic differences between the two peoples. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
Edited by - Mika ele on 02/22/2008 11:05:43 AM |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 11:38:46 AM
|
Couple tho'ts--
1) RE: "hello, ola, hullo, aloha" and a horde of others. Go to your library and dig out some research on Indo-European linguistic roots. (Can't find my personal tome at the moment.) Of course, is the Hawaiian language related to Indo-European languages? Don't know that one. But maybe there is a connection that's a heck of a lot older than post contact European and British sailors.
2) RE: the current vogue for defining "Aloha" and "Haole" as compound words. This started going around not all that long ago. I have not heard a definitive answer, other than it is highly unlikely. Both derivations strike me as a modern way to tease out meaning that may not be in the original.
"Haole" for one, is way older than first contact with Europeans. If memory serves, the word is used to describe Kamapua`a in the Kumulipo. Any one know this for sure?
Sure, the derivation makes sense from a logical point of view. But then my mom used to say that cats and snakes were related because they both had triangular heads, funny shaped eyes and hissed...
Weird sense of humor, my mom.
|
|
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 1:29:51 PM
|
"Haole" originally meant a white pig, as a non-compound word (according to S. Kamakau). Although Hawaiians have long denied cannabalism except in isolated areas, I have long wondered if the orgin of this word relates to the "pua'a loa" or long pig used throughout Polynesia to refer to people outside your tribe (and therefore fair game...)
Chris
|
|
|
|
Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 3:25:12 PM
|
| Do we need a Hawaiian version of Snopes? |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
|
|
|
Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 3:43:12 PM
|
The dividing point for Indo-European and Polynesian language groups dates back to when long-separated caveperson cousins Aahg and Oogh met at the family reunion and discovered that each thought the other "grunted funny." (Aagh was putting a lot of glottal stops in his grunts and trying to mime surfing. Oogh was grunting through his nose while trying to explain why it was fun to hit the little rock with a stick and then hit it again.)
|
Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/22/2008 3:47:54 PM |
|
|
|
Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 12:06:37 PM
|
"Hello" - according my my Swiss grandpa (Mom's dad) it originated in the Alps as " 'Uloooo!" when the herdsmen would call out to each other. No original meaning, but a sound resulting from the dynamic of taking a huge breath and hollering loudly enough to be heard across the chasms. As many Swiss, Austrians, and Germans intermarried with English-speaking peoples after arrival in the Americas, the sound/word spread. But Mama's Daddy was a carpenter, not an etymologist.
"Aloha" I have heard many versions of its origin from equally reputable sources.
"Haole" In my understanding, Mark is correct. It significantly pre-dates the arrival of Captain Cook, and is one of the sobriquets of Kamapua`a, the human/hog demigod, "ka haole nui, maka alohilohi;" "the big foreigner with sparkling eyes,"
Line 505 of the Kumulipo, a Hawaiian geneological chant, states, "Hanau ke Po`ohaole, he haole kela," "Born were the fair haired, they were strangers."
In my understanding of etymology, ha + 'ole (underline representing the kahako) would be highly unlikely to evolve into haole, which has neither kahako nor 'okina. The "ao" sound in "haole," I was taught is more of a glide, but not quite a dipthong. If the word were derived from "ha'ole," it would retain a glottal separation between the two vowel sounds.
Hopefully Liko or Keola can give a more correct or more in-depth explaination than what I am able to.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
Edited by - Hula Rider on 02/23/2008 12:10:10 PM |
|
|
|
Hula Rider
Lokahi
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 12:22:57 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Couple tho'ts--
2) RE: the current vogue for defining "Aloha" and "Haole" as compound words. This started going around not all that long ago. I have not heard a definitive answer, other than it is highly unlikely. Both derivations strike me as a modern way to tease out meaning that may not be in the original.
From what little research I have done in the past few years, I tend to agree with you. I had heard neither the "alo+ha" nor the "ha+'ole" until relatively recently.
A somewhat older story for "aloha" which I have heard, and consider equally credible, is that "a" (in the nature of) + "loha" (corner thatching of a hale), so it is "I extend to you the welcome of sitting under the thatching of my hale."
Out of respect for my paternal grandfather, I tend to default back to his explaination, "It just means what it means. It didn't need to come from another word."
So, until I have more data otherwise, I will stick with that.
Malama pono,
Leilehua |
Edited by - Hula Rider on 02/23/2008 12:25:09 PM |
|
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 1:14:50 PM
|
Couldn't Kamapua'a be "the large white pig with sparkling eyes"? After all, he was not a foreigner, and he was a pig, so this would seem to make more sense.
Kamakau was perhaps the most respected Hawaiian historian, geneologist, and linguist of his day, during a time when Hawaiian was more widely spoken than English on the islands. If he says a haole is a white pig, I'll go with it. As explained above, a long pig is a foreigner, so like many Hawaiian terms haole could have multiple meanings, but we are looking to the roots of the terms here.
Chris
|
Edited by - ypochris on 02/23/2008 1:16:12 PM |
|
|
|
KäneKïHö`alu
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 8:43:57 PM
|
| Mikaʻele is correct about the term "aloha." This was told to me by many Hawaiian language speakers I know (and I am one myself.) I have heard both the "without breath" and "white pig" stories about "haole," but I'm not sure which is the actual origin. |
E mālama pono a e hoʻomaha ma ka maluhia o ke Akua,
Matt |
|
|
|
Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 08:01:53 AM
|
As a corollary, I was speaking to a few Maori when I was in Aotearoa a few years ago (my wife and daughters were on a Lord of The Rings quest.
The Maori have the same greeting custom called the "hongi" or sharing of breath. The traditional Maori greeting, is "Kia Ora". Used in the place of 'hello', it could be translated as "Be Well" and the "Ora" could involve breath/life. If you hear "Kia Ora", the "r" is somewhat 'rolled' and the letter "r" could be substitued by "l" -- it almost sounds like Aloha with a Key in front of it. There are many similarities between the two cultures of Hawai'i and Aotearoa (New Zealand).
Europeans in Aotearoa though are called 'Pakeha'. Pa Ke ha -- could again refer to the blocking of breath "ha".
I am sure CPATCH is a much more thorough expert in this than I am as he is a "Kiwi" by birth.
I wonder how much similarity could be found in Tahiti, Samoa, Fiji, Cook, etc. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
Edited by - Mika ele on 02/25/2008 08:02:27 AM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
