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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2008 : 10:48:33 AM
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Hi Amy,
Now knowing that your application pertains to live performance or lecture demo, where you are concerned about the appearance of the mic and that you may also have to supply the mics, I would suggest that you get another Sennheiser E 845. The price performance ratio is good, they are decent mics and the ten-year warranty is something to really consider. I have been using Sennheiser products since 1976.
These are the reasons why I suggest getting a second E 845. Having two mics allows separation between your voice and the ipu. This gives whoever is operating the sound system a chance to attenuate either signal without too much trouble because both mics have identical specs – in particular frequency response.
By design the E 845 has a super cardioid pickup pattern, it is directional and is mostly going to pick up sound in the space it is pointed at. The pickup pattern is not as broad as a regular cardiod or omni. Depending upon the level, sound sources above, below, to the left and to the right, are not going to be clearly defined and have as much detail as a sound source directly on axis.
What this means is that if you are just using a single E 845 and it is at mouth level it may pick up the pa`i but not the pä while you are playing. So consequently the mic has to be placed further away from you in order to pick up both the sound of your voice and the ipu adequately. However doing this increases the risk of kicking the system into feedback from stage or side fill monitors. So a second mic should be used to preclude this situation. A second mic specifically for the ipu will help provide clear definition to your overall sound. If you are using a puniu, again you could use another mic but it isn’t really necessary and might be overkill.
If I were doing lecture demo like you or in a conference and I had to supply the mics for the best overall performance I would use a pair of Neumann KM 184 small diaphragm cardioids. They are small and unobtrusive onstage and provide perfect response. They can also be used in the field. They come in a very secure box and are easy to travel with if you are going to conference. I think they are going for around $1600 + for a pair. This kind of purchase you would have to think about as an investment.
PM
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 1:53:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
These are the reasons why I suggest getting a second E 845.
Now that we know your application, I agree with Peter's suggestion. Lawrence's comments about using condensers when you don't know whether or not phantom power will be provided (unfortunately, not as rare a situation as it should be, but there's a lot of poorly-trained p.a. operators and poorly-equipped venues in the world) should also be taken into account.quote:
If I were doing lecture demo like you or in a conference and I had to supply the mics for the best overall performance I would use a pair of Neumann KM 184 small diaphragm cardioids.
I used to use a matched-pair of KM84s years ago - very sweet for many situations, and some of my favorite mics - but probably a bit costly for this circumstance, as you noted.quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
However, even better is the EV664
Have you ever had a chance to use these fitted with 510 capsules? I've not, but I know people who have, just for aesthetic reasons. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 2:25:25 PM
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Retro:
quote:
Have you ever had a chance to use these fitted with 510 capsules? I've not, but I know people who have, just for aesthetic reasons.
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That's Cheating - the sound would not be authentic, besides I like my 510's as they are, plus it won't help a bit for driving 7 penny nails!
(but I can understand that someone might want the great sound of an EV510 in a very retro-looking package)
Amy:
If you DO choose condenser mics (or the Blue Ball - which I think would make a GREAT ipu mic - especially for only $50), you will want to also buy one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BPS1/
(A battery fed phantom power supply) You will normally NOT need it, but it will come in handy if the sound system cannot give you phantom power. And, since you normally would not use it, the batteries will last a long time.
And if you DO get a Blue Ball make sure you get one of these:
Available from the same place that has the Blue Ball on sale:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BALRINGER
With a short stand your setup might look like this:
(Except the ball would be blue)
Now - is that COOL or What? But maybe the audience might watch the microphone instead of the dancers!
And I take it back about the specialized mics - the Blue "Kick Ball" has an adjustable bass boost switch (which when off is the same as the regular Ball), so it can be tailored. Same price as Blue-Ball:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BALKICKBALL
(I am ordering one right now AND the Ballringer too - looks like something fun to play with)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/07/2008 4:09:53 PM |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 8:44:21 PM
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Hey Mark--the opportunity for the Bose L1 was last September, so it's history, sorry to say. The beauty of the Bose is that 1) you stand in front of the speakers, thus eliminating the need for separate monitors, and 2) there is an onboard mixer with user-operated level controls, thus eliminating the sound guy who has no idea what an ipu is supposed to sound like--in these parts, at least.
Wow, guys, the Blue Kickball is quite the fashion statement! Wouldn't you know, though, that it requires 48V phantom power, and the Bose stick only puts out 24V!!! So there's no way around an external phantom power supply at $35 for an AC one, or $120 for a battery pack. argh. So I guess I'll start with the Shure 57 (which looks like my Sennheiser, not like the Shure 58), and if I get adventurous, then Go Blue! |
amy k |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 10:06:14 AM
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quote:
Wow, guys, the Blue Kickball is quite the fashion statement! Wouldn't you know, though, that it requires 48V phantom power, and the Bose stick only puts out 24V!!!
That is unfortunate that Bose did not see fit to provide the full industry-standard 48V. However many Mics that say they need 48V will also work quite well at much lower voltages, but for various reasons the Manufacturers won't admit it. One of the reasons is that with reduced voltage, the maximum sound level handling is also reduced and the MFG certainly do not want to include a chart of maximum sound level versus phantom power voltage in their specs. Since I have ordered a Blue Ball and a Kick Ball I will try both of them on lower voltages with both loud and soft sources and report back.
For example I have some Shure Lavalier (183) mikes that claim to need 48V power but I have used them quite successfully (for over 5 years) on NINE volts!
BUT MAYBE YOU MIGHT LIKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH.
On another thread we are discussing wireless mics and that made me think about headset mikes. Last time I saw Kealii Reichel with his Halau (Villa Montalvo, CA), he was using a headset mike (a very tiny one) for his chanting and singing and a regular mike on the ipu. Most professional acts that require any movement around the stage these days use wireless mikes and often use headsets too. Also Gary Haleamau showed up at Montalvo with much the same rig.
Maybe you should consider getting a headset mic for your voice (wired perhaps) and then you can use the Sennheiser for the ipu. Maybe later you can also get a wireless rig to give you more mobility.
Sorry, Just some more stuff to think about.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/08/2008 1:51:46 PM |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 08:07:23 AM
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Hi Lawrence,
I'm all ears. If Blue can work on 24V then I'll get that for Mr. Kanilaha'ole.
aloha,
amy k. |
amy k |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 09:10:39 AM
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quote:
I'm all ears. If Blue can work on 24V then I'll get that for Mr. Kanilaha'ole.
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Back Again: I received my BlueBall and KickBall microphones and did some initial tests.
I must say that I am a bit dissapointed with the Blue BlueBall mics. They are worth the $50 but not as good as an SM57 on pretty much anything.
However the KickBall was significantly better. I rigged up the Kick Ball with the "Ballringer" shock mount and a short microphone stand next to a two-foot high ipuheke and did some recordings. Best results (for my ear) were obtained with the KickBall about ONE FOOT from the ipu and pointed at the ipu hole (when the ipu is at rest on it's pad), but off to the side at a 45 degree angle. The middle bass boost setting on the KickBall also gave the sound a nice thump. I also tried the mic pointing at the ipu at ipu waist level and also down near the pad. At these positions there was too much slap sound and not enough bass (again to my ear).
So I CAN recommend the Blue KickBall as a good Ipu mic if you have 48V phantom power available (as from My Mackie 1604VLZ 3).
I have not yet tried the KickBall with 24V phantom (but I will), however it will take some soldering on my part as I have to rig a voltage divider off of the Mackie mic connector and this will take some time.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/24/2008 09:15:32 AM |
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kuulei88
Akahai
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 4:32:56 PM
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| mahalo for the report Lawrence. It's looking like the SM57 would be a better all-around option. It looks, too, like I'll have to do some tweaking to find a workable positioning. I appreciate everyone's mana'o and kokua on this project!!! |
amy k |
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