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braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
 Posted - 04/08/2008 : 7:57:51 PM
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Was just wondering,these airlines that shut down,did they know ahead of time?And if so,don't sound right accepting air fare knowing there won't be any flight's,especially longstanding customers.Just don't seem right.If this is the case,should there be some kinda control over this?Please correct me if i'm wrong.Aloha braddah jay
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 12:37:07 AM
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Jay - I would imagine that they HAD to know ahead of time that they were going to shut down. That is not something you would do on spur-of-the-moment basis. Obviously,. at leaset, the top management knew. Someone had to make the decision to stop. Someone eventually had to tell the employees not to come to work anymore. Somebody who probably lives in a huge home with about 6 bathrooms and a maid and a alndscaper and a pool boy.
On the other hand. . . . officers of a corporation have a fiduciary duty to the stockholders, or that office holder could get sued (one good to read about for case law is Figgie Corp., a local Cleveland area company, where the pres./chairman of the board was sued by stockholders for breaching his diduciary duties and making bad decisions.)
How do you balance being pono with running a business and making money? I don't know. I do not think they have to be mutually exclusive. It must be harder with a large corporation. Maybe more easier to run a small business, a family-owned business and do it in a pono way.
We have a thread going further down the list here about Aloha Airlines and ATA, with lots of talk story about the topic. We all turned into economic geniuses, you know. We could solve the economc problems of this country -- all of us Taro Patch `onhana.
Yeah, right.
But we are good talking about it. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 07:05:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by braddah jay
If this is the case,should there be some kinda control over this?
There used to be, but the feds chose to deregulate airlines in 1978. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 07:25:21 AM
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quote:
officers of a corporation have a fiduciary duty to the stockholders,
.
Except, of course that the common stockholders have no power, and usually also get shafted as well. The preferred stockholders (mostly composed of the board itself) do much better and often reward themselves and the president with large bonuses in these kinds of situations! There have been many suits brought by common stockholders against boards but very few of these have ever won (less than 1%), which is why they make big news when a miracle happens and they do win.
Example: Enron - the private suits won, but they won almost nothing, I think two guys went to jail, and one is already out.
Also look at what just happened with Bear Sterns, the common stockholders lost ($179-$10) = $169 per share, one guy was fired, one guy sacrificed his bonus (but still got paid about $7 million), and the rest (of the insiders) did very well!
It is interesting to study the history of corporations, how they got started in the first place, how they became unregulated in the 1920's (Keynesian economics), how they became strongly regulated after the 1929 crash and the Great Depression, and now how they have become de-regulated again (starting with the Regan administration) under the name "Supply Side" economics (which was just a Renaming of Keynesian economics). Kind of circular isn't it?
Question: Can you name the individual who "invented" the concept of the corporation and developed the earliest laws for corporations?
Hints: He was not a nice guy, he dressed in red, and he wore a big hat.
And you are right, What ATA (and Aloha to lesser extent) did was very unfair, but fairness has very little to do with it. The corporate insiders keeping as much money as possible for themselves (while pretty much ignoring their clients and common stockholders) has everything to do with it.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 04/09/2008 07:47:43 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 09:25:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
Question: Can you name the individual who "invented" the concept of the corporation and developed the earliest laws for corporations?
Hints: He was not a nice guy, he dressed in red, and he wore a big hat.
Santa Claus? (He can be a bit not-so-nice, you know...)
Or are you referring to Stewart Kyd? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 10:35:32 AM
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| I thought he meant the devil. Horns??? Hat??? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 07:06:27 AM
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OK - Next Clue....
He was the main villain in the Three Musketeers stories.
P.S. None of the clues said anything about horns!
And also his hat is a bit of a "Red Herring", sometimes it was not
so big, just a little red skull-cap.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 04/10/2008 07:08:45 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 08:54:22 AM
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Didn't expect that, did you? NOBODY expects... ... ... |
Edited by - Retro on 04/10/2008 08:55:12 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 09:19:09 AM
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AHA!!
(But yes, I DID expect that.. and yes, My Name is Nobody)
http://www.amazon.ca/My-Name-Nobody-Tonino-Valerii/dp/B0007M21Z8
However, you are getting closer!!!
Now think France instead of Spain...
AND DON'T THREATEN ME WITH THAT COMFY CHAIR!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 04/10/2008 10:07:18 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 10:59:17 AM
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FWIW, Stewart Kyd (referred to above) was a British barrister, who wrote "A Treatise on the Law of Corporations" in 1794 - considered to be the first such work in English, he defined a corporation as "a collection of many individuals united into one body, under a special denomination, having perpetual succession under an artificial form, and vested, by policy of the law, with the capacity of acting, in several respects, as an individual, particularly of taking and granting property, of contracting obligations, and of suing and being sued, of enjoying privileges and immunities in common, and of exercising a variety of political rights, more or less extensive, according to the design of its institution, or the powers conferred upon it, either at the time of its creation, or at any subsequent period of its existence."
But I suspect the answer you seek is Armand Jean du Plessis de Richelieu, Cardinal-Duc de Richelieu? |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 1:59:05 PM
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TA..DA!!
Yes, Cardinal Richelieu. I listened to a Commonwealth Club speaker some years ago who wrote book titled something like "Secrecy and the Rise of Corporations". He was able to trace (and gave seemingly good evidence) of the origin of both the use of the word "Corporation" and early laws to his "Red Eminence". I did not buy the book and now cannot find it in print or even mentioned on the web.
The title of the work you quote "A Treatise on the Law of Corporations", must mean that such laws already existed at the time of the writing and the date places it not "too long" after Richelieu.
Wikipedia is not much help on this subject either, but maybe the French Wikipedia says more (But I cannot read it). As you may nhave noticed, the various language versions of Wikipedia contain significantly different, but not necessarily contradictory, information.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 04/10/2008 2:03:21 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 2:23:50 PM
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Gregg, wherever you are, you will not expect the Cheney inquisition.
Be afraid.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 6:45:51 PM
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| Eeek. Thanks for the warning, Reid. |
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braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 12:53:43 AM
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I like it when I learn something new!Just read today that aloha airlines was ranked #1 for best airlines.Now thats sad.Still don't
seem right to accept airfare,and bookings knowing they'll be no flights.Sad day for alot people in hawaii!Just the other day,they mention the story of a man with a lung condition,treatment was over
a thounsand dollars per visit,what is this man gonna do?This lady who
is also having therapy,her husband had 30 plus years with aloha,he lost his job at aloha, not to mention 6-months of sick leave pay.And you mentioned that the executive corporate shareholders usually come out ahead,yeah I see how it works,the almighty dollar!Only thing is no more money will be coming in!Thanks everyone aloha braddah jay. |
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