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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2008 : 05:46:29 AM
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A few years back, I was takiing awa capsules to help me with back pain and menstrual pain and to help me sleep. It was wonderful and helped me tremendously, whereas prescription muscle relaxants, painkillers and hormones did nothing but make me feel dopey. I did plenty of research about the plant before I decided to use it. There were many reports about awa causing liver damage and using too much of it would make your skin scaley and jaundiced (another sign of liver toxicity). Other reports said the purity of the root was paramount to avoiding any problems. Different toxic alkaloids are present in leaves and stems and "bark", which are not present in the roots.
Many countries in Europe have banned the sale of such. Canada has banned it. Can no longer find it over here in the health food stores or drug stores.
Question: why ban something that is all natural and has proven efficacy?
Is it "legal" to have awa shops kinda like coffee shops over there in Hawai`i? How they can sell it in restaurants and such and I cannot buy it over here?
Couldn't it be a very good agricultural product for the state of Hawai`i?
Is it physically "addictive"?
It was one of the canoe plants and those who brought it to Hawai`i were well aware of the benefits of awa for many varying reasons. Is there a history of people getting liver damage from it in the olden days? Who knows? There does not seem to be any evidence to show that, however, diagnostic methods were certainly different in those days.
It is not considered a controlled substance by the FDA is it?
And plenty of my reading says it helps people to mellow out. Of course they said that about pakalolo, too, and that is illegal.
What gives? Please help me understand the conundrum.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 07:52:51 AM
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The problem European countries have had with 'awa is due to greed. As you have pointed out, there are toxic substances in the leaves and stems that are not present in the roots. The problem is, the roots take five to seven years to mature to a decent potency, and once you dig them the plant is pau. You can chop off the stems and leaves time and time again and they quicky regrow. Plus, the stems and leaves weigh far more than the roots.
Even the corm, where most of the weight is found in the root mass, is considered inferior although it is a traditional product and is not known to be toxic. The roots themselves are the prime product; stems and leaves are not traditionally consumed and should be discarded.
'Awa is a high value niche agricultural product in Hawai'i. It needs very moist conditions and is subject to a disease that causes it to die back, although it doesn't kill it, so production can be uncerain. Zack Gibson had a decent sized 'awa operation in Hamakua, but since he started his 'awa bar in Kona it doesn't look like much energy has gone into the farm. Zack sold a lot of packaged 'awa products and extracts, but he is one of those who use the stems and leaves rather than the roots.
It is not a controlled substance, and as far as I know not physically addictive, although is seems to have some psycological addiction problems. Bans are promoted by pharmicuetical companies based on trumped up and actually false data- 'awa in Europe made a very significant dent in the market for SSI's such as Prozac. In Fiji it is commonly drunk much like beer, and like alcohol some want it daily. You can tell an 'awa abuser by the flaky skin. In old Hawaiian texts this was referred to as a cleansing process- the old skin flakes off and new, smooth skin "like a baby's" replaces it with enough 'awa, they claim. Where ever alcohol has come in to replace 'awa, the villagers lament the social cost- especially the women. 'Awa relaxes you, alcohol often leads to aggressive behavior (as well as being one of the most sddictive substances on the planet). One good thing about "awa is that the longer you use it, the less is required to affect you- the opposite of tolerance. In Fiji, where you are required to finish an entire coconut shell full of 'awa in a single guzzle, old men search out the tiniest coconuts imagineable- hardly bigger than a walnut- so they can adhere to the custom without becoming overly intoxicated.
Unlike an alcohol based party, an 'awa pary starts off noisy, with lots of singing and loud conversation, but becomes more and more subdued as it progresses. When the 'awa runs out, the bowl is turned upside down, the music stops, and everyone leaves immediately- if you want to hang out with the locals there for a while, be sure to bring lots of 'awa or the party won't last long!
Different 'awa has different potencies- the mix of kavalactones varies, as does the amount. One rare 'awa from Hi'ilawe in Waipi'o (think the legend of Pua Pua Lena Lena and the Kiha Pu, and Lu'ukia's sacred 'awa patch) contains the highest ever tested- over 22% kavalactones! 'Awa also gets stronger with age. From experience, I can testify that a little root of 100 plus year old 'awa will kick your 'okole. But the effects of 'awa are subtle- looking at it from the inside. From the outside the effects are more obvious. Let me explain by example:
Some years back a large group of about 30 or 40 Waipions went over to party in Waimanu valley. A zodiac was used to bring is some kegs and bottles and various supplies, and any women unwilling to walk. This was a hard partying group- I mean wild! I decided not to join them for a couple of days so they would have time to mellow a bit, and even the third night was a bit much.
The next morning saw the end of the alcohol. A few of us decided to keep the party going by hitting up the 'awa patch in the back of the valley. We carefully harvested a bunch without damaging the plants and naturally planted cuttings all around. Then we headed back to the beach and brewed up a big batch of fresh 'awa (normally it is dried as it is considered more potent after drying). So everyone sat around and started drinking 'awa. Pretty soon it got pretty quiet. Then someone said "I'm not feeling anything. Are you feeling anything?" "No", everyone replied, "this "awa doesn't do much". Then it was totally quiet again as everyone drank more. Occasionally someone would say "I'm not feeling it. Anyone feeling it?" "No, nothing", everyone would agree, as forty of the wildest party animals you can imagine sat around staring at the fire for hours, absolutely quiet, absolutely still.
Chris
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 08:15:30 AM
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Here in California, the Hansen's Cola company put out some speciality drinks a few years ago. One of them was called "d-Stress" and one of it's main ingredients was Kavakava, which so far as I know, is the same plant as Awa (or Bula? in Tahiti "Bowl of bula and twice clap the hands" - right?).
Anyway the Hanson's drink had some other known relaxing ingredients such as St. John's Wort, chamomile, one of the B vitamins (B12 maybe), etc. I used to drink it before stressful meetings. For a while I liked it quite a lot and found it as effective as Valium. However, if I drank more that two cans there were some strange and uncomfortable effects that I attributed to the St. John's wort or the Kavakava. I cannot find it much in the stores anymore. Don't know what quality assurance they have on their Kavakava supplies in reference to ypoChris.
Here is a web-link to purchase so I guess it is still available:
http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/hansens_functionals/
However, the rather stupid reviewers (hard to believe people are so dumb), mistake it for an ENERGY drink, which it is NOT (and even says so on the can). Too stupid to even read the label, and dumb enough to still consume the product??
If you scroll down through this link you will see it listed in complaints to the CPSI:
http://www.cspinet.org/reports/funcfoodcomplaint.htm
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 05/01/2008 08:41:47 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 08:42:08 AM
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Chammomile tea has been a home remedy of sorts ever since I can remember. It is good for the digestion (Peter Rabbit story about his ma gave him chammomile tea after he pigged out in Mr. McGregor's garden), and good to relax you, as well. It is in Celestial Seasoning's Nighttime or Dreamtime or whatever that green teddy bear tea is. It also helps menstrual cramps. It makes sense they might want to pair it with kava.
If the problem with it is that the leaves and stems have the bad alkaloids then why don't they (FDA) regulate it that way -- can only be made of roots. According to some studies done by UH, gas chromatography will provide definitive identification of the good kava vs. bad kava. It just seems to me that this is an agricultural product that has many more benefits than drawbacks. I eouldf say more safe than aspirin or tylenol, for sure.
It seems as though through the internet one can still purchase awa. Trouble with that is,= just what Chris said above. You cannot know whether they put the stems and leaves in. I liked buying capsules with the kavalactones because I didn't have to taste the kava. Everything I have read says how icky it tastes. I saw the chick on travel channel that gets to go and stay in all the swell hotels go to a kava cafe in Honolulu and boy did she made the face at the taste and the smell.
I wonder how the "side effects" of kava compare to the "side effects" of Zoloft or Elavil or any of those anti-anxiety/antidepressants/selective serotonin inhibitors. I suspect there is much less problems with kava than the chemicals.
So if one wanted to order through the internet, no narks are coming to knock at your door?
Chris - thanks for all the info. You are quite knowledgeable about this stuff. Mahalo.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 2:24:03 PM
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I enjoy a bit of 'awa now and then as a pain killer or as a relaxant. Drank the most in Fiji- as I said, they use it like beer to relax in the evening and since I like to get to know the locals I was always good for a kilo of 'awa. I think with a kilo of 'awa and a pack of guitar strings you would be very welcome anywhere in Fiji! In the few months I have spent there, I drank more 'awa than in 30 years in Hawai'i.
Only time I got what you would call a hangover was after some of that hundred year old stuff. Generally you wake up refreshed and ready for another hard day's work.
Taste isn't really that bad- kind of a sweet bitterness with an earthy overtone. In truth, after the first bowl your mouth is numb and you don't taste it anyway. I actually enjoy the taste, and will gnaw on a root when I have the chance just for the flavor.
In Samoa and Hawai'i 'awa use is much more ceremonial than in Fiji. In Fiji you say a drawn out "yangona" (which, although misspelled, means 'awa) as you are handed the bowl, then drain all but the last bit in a single draught, and toss the last bit over your shoulder for the gods. That is about it, except the bowl is blessed before and after use, and I may have forgotten something after a dozen years and missed other things as I don't speak Fijian. I guess they don't do the ceremony in the tourist "awa bars in Hawai'i, these days, but previously it was always a big ceremony in Hawai'i, as it is in Samoa.
People have used 'awa for thousands of years without apparent negative effects other than the over use by certain individuals that seems to occur with any intoxicant. But in thousands of years they also learned to stick to the roots, even though stems and leaves are also potent, and more easily available. I think there is a reason for this, and we should follow their example. Buy the actual root and you will know you are getting a top quality product. Chew a little bit and see if your mouth goes numb to test for potency. Then powder the root and make an extract with COLD water- not a tea! Actually, traditionally the young girls of the village would chew the 'awa and spit the extract into the bowl; supposedly the saliva makes it more potent. But since the advent of communicable diseases, the modern style is to powder it with a mortar and pestle and put the powder in a clean bandanna, then work it in the cold water something like a tea bag. The sound of the mortar, which rings like a bell when the pestle is used, calls all the neighbors to an 'awa session every evening in Fiji- the pau hana bell! Anyway, unless the 'awa is extremely potent, it is difficult to chew enough yourself as your mouth goes numb so it is done mechanically.
Stick to the tradition and you will be fine. Side effects (other than scaly skin from extreme excess) seem to be minimal. Compared to alcohol, it is utterly benign. And the only knocks on your door will be from any Fijian neighbors who hear the mortar ring.
Chris
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KäneKïHö`alu
Akahai
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 5:04:57 PM
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| The problem with Europe is that they don't listen to the wisdom of those who have used ʻawa for centuries. Polynesians and other Pacific Islanders will say to always use only the root, not leaves and stems because it contains stuff that can mess up your liver. But no, the leaves and stems are cheaper so that is what the Europeans bought and used. Now it caused all kinds of problems and they banned it. I enjoy ʻawa on many occasions with my ʻohana and nobody has ever had any complications because of it. Bottom line, heed the advice of the experts! |
E mālama pono a e hoʻomaha ma ka maluhia o ke Akua,
Matt |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 6:22:11 PM
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| I've been lucky enough to have used some high quality root. Personally, I found it very potent stuff. I used it durig a time of intense physical pain, and it dulled most of it, and certainly left a very mellow "aura," without the harsh effects of the standard painkillers, no side effects, clear head in a couple of hours, no hangover. Trully a powerful medicinal gift. |
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andyjade
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 09:32:04 AM
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KaneKiHo has it right. Stick to the right plant parts and you'll be fine. For those of you off island, I highly recommend Jonathan Yee's Hawaiian Kava Center as the vendor of choice. Fair price, good variety of cultivars, and a truly mellow soul. He's also the guy who helped start the Kapahulu Kafe back in the day (in the same location as Hale Noa). He's got micronized awa right now, and the Papa 'ele'ele is great.
Peace,
AJ |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 09:40:30 AM
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I saw kava today at the local organic food grocery store. It was capsules filled with a liquid kava concoction but the label did say that it was from lateral roots. It was $18.00 for a bottle of 50 caps. Does anyone know whether it would affect someone with heart problems? My blood pressure is fine, very nice and low without taking any blood pressure lowering medications. They took me off the beta blocker because it was making my BP go too slow, it slowed the heart down too much. Really the only heart related meds I am taking now are Lipitor for cholesterol lowering and baby aspirin for the anti-clotting and anti-inflammatory properties. Seems to me that kava might even make me mellow out more. Retiring really mellowed me out, too.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 11:25:31 AM
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Or maybe you could try some Electrical Banana.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 12:32:17 PM
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| Huh???? What the heck is electrical banana oh love of my life? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 4:36:06 PM
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| If the beta blocker slowed you down too much (don't know which one or dose,) I would speak with someone before trying any sedative type of substance. If you have an Elephant Pharmacy down there you could probably get a good consult there for a few dollars. |
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andyjade
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 06:56:12 AM
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Wcerto-
It's of a lot of people's opinion that the capsules are junk. They really don't contain enough kavalactones to do much. I'd stick with the more traditional routes of administration, which can be had for much cheaper. A pound of micronized papa 'ele 'ele from the Hawaiian Kava Center is like 20 buck. That'll last you a long time, compared to the pills. Most retail pill bottles say to take 2-3 pills 2-3 times a day. Seems like you 18 bucks would be gone much sooner than compared to the powder...
AJ |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:20:58 AM
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Why the papa'ele'ele rather than the Mo'i powder?
According to the site, Hawaiian Royalty preferred the mo'i.
(Just curious - P.S. the price is now $35 a pound over the web)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 09:56:55 AM
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Folks, is there any indication about relative degrees of pain relief between the cultivars? I would dearly love to add something to my gabapentin, that does not act on the mu receptor. Also, insomnia relief?
Raymond, do you remember what kind you used and how long the analgesia lasted?
I would by some from Yee, but I don't want to go through a lot of problems (physical or financial - I already have enough of both) before I find the magic bullet.
...Reid |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 10:57:10 AM
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Reid - I had back problems so bad that I could not sleep. I would lay tossing and turning all night long and maybe finally fall asleep when it was almost time to get up. I have pretty bad degenerative arthritis in my lumbar spine and right hip. Plus, back then I had just had a work accident and herniated a disc and I was going through some pretty bad female type problems. The kava was a godsend to me. It made me feel drowsy perhaps half an hour after I took it. It never made me feel dopey like narcotics -- I had Darvocet and Skelaxing from the ortho guy. They were awful for me. The kava fixed cramps, fixed the back pain and fixed the insomnia. Pretty much immediately. By that, I mean the next morning when I woke up, I was a new woman. All I took were two capsules of whatever the standard strength and percentage kavalactones. I got them from GNC, but I do not know if they sell them any longer. I also used to buy them from drugstore.com, who no longer carries kava product. Then I went to CVS who shortly stopped selling it also. I searched for the standardized capsules because in all my reading about it, that was the way to get quality assurance both in strength and purity. I also wanted capsules because I am a wimp when it comes to swallowing something that tastes bad. I nevah like barf. When I could no longer obtrain them, I went back to the doc who gave me Elavil. That put me to sleep quickly, too and did help with the nerve pain in my back. But it made me really drowsy in the morning. Then he switched me to Zoloft, which I am still taking. It helps the back pretty well, but not like the kava. It does nothing to help with the degenerative arthritis. And luckily I do not have to worry about the female stuff any longer since I am an old lady now.
I am leaning toward ordering kava root from one of the sources mentioned above.
Reid - I know who have mighty severe problems and gabapentin is not a really swell bunch of chemicals to put in your body. Were I you, I would give kava a try. I do not think you have any side effects to worry about with the kava. Only take once a day at bed time if you can. See how it works. Not too expensive to try one order of it. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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