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PoiDog
Lokahi
245 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2008 : 08:35:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapuna
Wow Pdog you're really stirring up the poop here eh?????
Oops...but wen open up some makas so erebody can see how hateful some people is an still be one church. I bet dey all wen come fo one vacation and get da may-jah religious write-off on da vacation! |
Aloha,
da Poi Dog |
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hapuna
Lokahi
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 2:49:35 PM
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Eh maybe you should go play your uke for them and sing a few of your songs.
quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog
quote:
Originally posted by hapuna
Wow Pdog you're really stirring up the poop here eh?????
Oops...but wen open up some makas so erebody can see how hateful some people is an still be one church. I bet dey all wen come fo one vacation and get da may-jah religious write-off on da vacation!
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hapuna
Seattle |
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braddah jay
Lokahi
235 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 7:20:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
quote:
Originally posted by braddah jay
Retro,Reid where you at?what no input? 
No need - you folks are expressing it very eloquently.
Lucky we live in a land where even the lunatics at any fringe can express themselves; lucky we can also turn our backs on them, see them as examples of behavior to avoid, discuss the heck out of them, or even show them aloha (whether we feel they deserve it or not) - taking the high road and teaching them by our own example. Alana's pastor clearly knows how to do his/her job right, and I second sirduke58's kudos.Thanks retro,well said.It's not about what you know,or what you've been through,but what you can learn from this.It's all about choice,hopefully we make the right choice where we can benefit by example to others.Thank you for your HUMBLE input.Aloha braddah jay.
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Edited by - braddah jay on 05/21/2008 7:21:43 PM |
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PoiDog
Lokahi
245 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 8:42:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapuna
Eh maybe you should go play your uke for them and sing a few of your songs.
Yeah, yeah...one country/ukulele song by Keoki Jones...Wrong's What I Do Best. Weeha! Not da haaaad kine line da moonlight one! |
Aloha,
da Poi Dog |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 07:48:25 AM
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Chris,
I beg to disagree with you - not on the principle, but on this particular instance. Free speech does not mean anyone can say whatever they want in whichever way they choose to say it. For example, free speech does not cover shouting "fire" in a crowded auditorium, does not cover walking up to a person of color and yelling "f**ing ***" in their face, etc. Calling eternal damnation on someone or some group is a religious hate crime, and should be treated as a hate crime. These people do have a right to civilized discourse. They also have a right to civil disobedience, though there is a price to pay for that. Berthold Brecht, in the play Galileo, wrote a great line about complacent societies that passively allow atrocities when he wrote, "I can see their divine compassion, but where is their divine rage." (Or something very close - I don't have time to look it up.) In my opinion, there is no difference between these people and the ones who threw stones at civil rights marchers, except that they have not yet gotten to physical violence.
That said, there is the question of which startegy to employ to deal with them - perhaps no publicity and aloha is best. I wonder how they would be treated if their signs read that Kanaka Maoli are savages who are damned by God and should be eradicated. Or that Jews, or Arabs, or Germand, or Japanese (or anyone else,) were the cause of the world's troubles and should be round up. Oh wait, that did happen and is still hapenning, and just a few people died because of it. Frankly, if I had a cancer growing in my body, I'd go for chemotherapy as opposed to waiting for it to go away on its own. Cancers tend to have an incidious way of spreading. |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 5:50:07 PM
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quote:
Oh wait, that did happen and is still hapenning
Mahalo Raymond.
Yes, the First Amendment is sacrosanct, but there is a delicate balance. Tolerance of those who promote hate is a very, slippery slope.
For me one of the greatest aspects about our beloved Hawai'i is the incredible multi-culturalism. Yes, I know there is another story, but the aloha of the vast majority is what it's all about.
Larry |
Edited by - Larry Goldstein on 05/22/2008 5:54:13 PM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2008 : 03:05:11 AM
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I'm sticking to my stand. I may not like what they have to say, but I still support their right to say it.
Actually, I'm not that clear on the message. Jesus said "Thou shalt not kill" and so solders deserve to die?
Anyway, I don't care what they are saying, what matters is the freedom to say it. No one is dying because of this, so shouting "fire" in a theater doesn't apply. When one local braddah say "all you F***ing haoles should go back to the mainland" I might point out that my people were still fighting off the Europeans long after the Hawaiians had succumbed, so why do people think they belong on the "mainland" any more than in Hawai'i- but I would never argue that the person has no right to call someone a f***ing haole or express their opinion that they do not not belong in Hawai'i (however strongly I might feel that haoles brought their ancestors to Hawai'i in the first place to work in the cane fields).
Chris |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2008 : 06:37:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ypochris
Actually, I'm not that clear on the message. Jesus said "Thou shalt not kill" and so solders deserve to die?
I suspect the Westboro folks are "not so clear on the message" either. I lot of wrong has been done, and continues to be done, in the name of Jesus Christ - usually very loudly and dramatically.
Those who seem to stick to purer Christian principles tend to do their good works quietly, as far as I (a non-believer) can tell. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2008 : 08:28:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Retro
I suspect the Westboro folks are "not so clear on the message" either. I lot of wrong has been done, and continues to be done, in the name of Jesus Christ - usually very loudly and dramatically.
Those who seem to stick to purer Christian principles tend to do their good works quietly, as far as I (a non-believer) can tell.
As a Christian I have to point out for the sake of those who aren't (and who may be misled into thinking that groups such as Westboro are) that when asked what the most important of God's commandments were, Jesus had the following to say:
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:36-40)
In other words, as far as Jesus was concerned, if you truly love God then loving others will be a natural byproduct. And for those who may claim that "neighbor" doesn't include your enemies, he also said:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:43)
It's unfortunate that anyone can claim to be a Christian without at least understanding and attempting to follow Jesus' teachings, especially when their actions as as hurtful to others as those of Westboro. Fortunately there are those such as Alana and her church who do choose to lead by example. If only the media focused on them. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 05/27/2008 05:34:34 AM |
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NANI
Lokahi
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 05:02:55 AM
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This is the welcome they recieved from our community as well as the BILL ! It was a wonderful day when this father won his law suit.
Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest
A federal jury in Baltimore, Maryland, Wednesday awarded $10.9 million to a father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by members of a fundamentalist church carrying signs blaming soldiers' deaths on America's tolerance of homosexuals.
The family of Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder -- who was killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq's Anbar province in 2006 -- sued the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, and its leaders for defamation, invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
Church members showed up at Snyder's funeral chanting derogatory slogans and holding picket signs with messages including "God Hates Fags."
They've picketed the funerals of dozens of troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming that God is punishing the United States because of its tolerance for homosexuality.
Al Snyder, father of the slain Marine, said he considered filing the lawsuit for a long time before going forward and that he hoped the judgment would make it harder for the church to continue such protests.
"It's hard enough burying a 20-year-old son, much less having to deal with something like this," he said, recalling that some of the other signs at the funeral included "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "Thank God for IEDs." Watch the fallen Marine's father describe his reaction ยป
"As far as their picketing goes, they want to do it in front of a courthouse, they want to do it in a public park, I could care less. But I couldn't let them get away with doing this to our military," Al Snyder said.
"Every day in court I would just think of Matt and have him on my mind and know that he was watching out for me."
Snyder's attorney told jurors to pick an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again," according to The Associated Press.
The award includes $2.9 million in compensatory damages and $8 million in punitive damages, a clerk in the judge's chambers said.
Lawyers for the church members argued Matthew Snyder's funeral was public and the First Amendment protects all points of view, even offensive ones, the AP reported.
Church founder Fred Phelps said the church would appeal the decision, adding it would "take about five minutes to reverse that thing." -(CNN)
It really scares me the way religions ( seems to be ALL of them) can be used as such reasons for HATE!
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"A hui hou kakou, malama pono".
Nancy |
Edited by - NANI on 05/27/2008 05:04:30 AM |
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 05:48:04 AM
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Oh, so that is the message- hatred of homosexuals. Can't say I support this at all- a couple of my best friends happen to have different sexual preferences than I do. But if they want to express their views in a manner that does not encourage violence, that is their right in my opinion. But it does negate my previous point- that the government is tolerating opposition to the war.
Our government promotes intolerance, unfortunately- as reflected in the statement "if you are not with us, you are against us". I suppose if you were really opposed to the war, they would accuse you of supporting terrorism and send you to Guantanamo. But if you just want to spew hatred about homosexuals, even if the dead solders were not homosexual, that is another story.
And I agree it will take "about five minutes" to reverse an 11 million award for expressing free speech in a public place. How could there have been $2.9 million in actual damages from this?
Chris
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