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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2008 : 07:00:45 AM
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Any tips on how fo play slack key as accompaniment for singing (rather than solo)?
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 12:08:50 PM
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I would think (because I myself have not done it) that you could support the vocal with plain chords and add fills, like paralel 6ths/3rds to link some chords. Maybe just srtip out the melody notes from a familiar slack key arrangement. Then try the usual (or new) vamps for between the verses. Finally, you can play the slack key way you know for a solo or modify it to single notes with 6ths, 3rds and what ever you can thrown in.
Think about practice with Slack Tracks and see what works if any are available anymore.
These are just a few thoughts but maybe you should wait for an actual performer with experience to chime in. |
Bob |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 04:26:22 AM
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What I've learned is you typically back off the complexity of playing a bit, to let the voice "take the lead". You can then accompany by fretting each chord position as they come along in the song and using a repetitive picking pattern to create an ongoing "backup" the melody. Old style slack key played an actual harmonizing melody along with the voice, but that is harder to do. You can mix and match those two ends of the spectrum by making some adjustments, and as Bob suggested, use some 6ths or vamps where they can harmonize distinctly with the sung melody. Otherwise, you can use vamps as the bridge between verses. The full-boat slack key stuff that incorporates the melody as well tends to compete with the voice, as well as being way hard to do and sing at the same time ;-) and so is perfect to reserve as choice material for the pa'ani :-)
aloha,
Sarah |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 11:00:43 AM
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In a way slack key is like flamenco, there is a lot more involved with it than just playing the guitar. Some of the things they have in common as folk traditions is that they are often performed with dance, they both tell a story through the song and the dance, and they both evoke the spirit of the people when performed.
Singing is like the other half of slack key and currently is underrepresented or not taught by many teachers because they don’t know how to sing in Hawaiian, let alone sing and play at the same time. The key, like Sarah said, is you have to keep things simple. This is what I teach my students.
• The most common method of accompaniment in slack key is by playing simple kinetic patterns through the chord progression. These patterns use short motifs from the melody; they mirror the character of the vocal line and are brought in and out of the verses as a subtle but unifying element. They are generally performed in first position with open chords and simple ornamentation or embellishment.
• Movements by sixths in a parallel scale, that is the two notes being played simultaneously should be avoided, because it is pedantic and sends a clear message to the listener that you don’t know what you’re doing. The parallel scales are just that, two scales played at the same time. However there are intervals of a sixth and a third, and they are frequently used in slack key, and they may be played scale like, but not as parallel scales.
• Creating movement within the I chord in traditional slack key is easy. A simple major chord is made up of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes within the major scale. In the key of G, the tonic chord (or I chord) is G. The notes that comprise it are G, B, and D. To create movement in the I chord, all you would do is substitute a C, which is the 4th in the scale with the B the 3rd. This is called a suspended fourth. The G chord would now be called a G suspended 4th. By using a simple one finger extension on the fretboard you would create movement back and forth between the G and G sus 4th. You can also do this with the G sus 2nd to to create movement in the I chord, and also use this method with the IV chord. The V7 chord is more complex and a chord substitution like a diminished 7th would probably be better.
• Using the alternating bass accompaniment. The bass sets the rhythm and the root of the chord. You could use a simple brush stroke through the chord progression while still creating movement with the alternating bass.
• Using pedal tone you could sing over a single bass note on a through composed song or any song which isn’t from the hula ku`i. It should be a song that doesn’t have an alternating bass or a strict rhythm. But this would get boring very quickly so you would do this in combination with the other techniques.
The thing is that you have to remember that you are telling a story and keep the story interesting otherwise people will lose interest. Than again if you are just playing for yourself it might not matter.
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 11:33:02 AM
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Peter
I made a mistake with the parallel 6th/3rd. Wes Motgomery was famous for parallel tones but that is not what I meant. I meant intervals and not parallel tones. |
Bob |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 7:03:32 PM
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Aloha Peter -
I would be more than happy to pay for a lesson in what you were suggesting. Probably others would, too. What do you think of putting together a recorded lesson (nothing fancy or like studio recording) explaining and demonstrating these techniques? And maybe giving an example by playing them as an accompaniment to a song. I have paid $50 or so for a lesson and would be happy to pay that for a recorded lesson. Also, any extra time it took you to put it together would doubtless be reimbursed by others buying the lesson, too. I imagine you sitting down with any kind of recorder and just doing a lesson in backup as if a student were there. Perfection would be totally unnecessary. After all, Uncle Ray screwed up on his "Play and Learn Slack Key" video and wasn't bothered a bit. What do you say?
Mark |
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Baritone
Lokahi
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2008 : 9:23:43 PM
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Thanks,Medeiros! I've wondered how to explain the theory behind what my fingers do when I play rhythm and back-up in an open-key tuning. Had a class with Ozzie, your student, and found the bass-with-movement worked well.
Herb |
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les_maverick
Lokahi
USA
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 05:31:34 AM
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Peter:
Thanks for the explanation.
I would like to take that lesson too.
Les |
Edited by - les_maverick on 05/28/2008 05:32:58 AM |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 06:40:03 AM
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| Much of what Peter talked about is in the books (draft was three volumes) he is in the last stages of proofreading and recording the sound files. I was very lucky to be one of Peter's students and have been learning from the drafts. If you get to Kaneohe, and Peter is available, and feeling better, please make all efforts to schedule (a) lesson(s) with him! |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 09:16:03 AM
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Tanks eh you guys! Peter, tanks fo da insight! My mom still stay in Kaneohe, but I dunno wen we goin be back fo visit. Looking forward fo da book!
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2008 : 04:33:01 AM
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Keola Beemer teaches singing over a simple alternating bass line on "I Ka Po Mei Ke Au" in his book/CD set. This is only one alternative, though. I don't know how often he does this on recordings, probably not real often. He likes to use multiple tracks, often in different tunings on his recordings. But the simple bass line is a starting point, ripe with possibilities for embelishinment.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 2:18:44 PM
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A good person to listen to is John Keawe. His vocals are backed mainly by simple chords, with nice fills in between. Ray Kane is another.
Paul, I think Keola is just teaching thumb technique to center you around the words and hawaiian beat structure. I've had hours of instruction with Keola and he's never taught that as a way to accompany. He plays chords with embellishments.
If any of you have the chance to take a lesson from Peter, jump on it. My three hours with him was invaluable. Not only for the old school slack, but the history and reason behind it. Besides, it's nice to throw a few half-diminished arpeggios in the vamp and watch everyone turn their heads, "Shoots, Bruddah, wer u lern da kine?"
Keep it simple.
dog |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 2:41:54 PM
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| Thanks fo da plug Dave, and yeah I am available to teach. But right now az you know I'm having a real good time ova in talk story wid Ed da Guavaman. Why might you ask? 'Cause like Menpachi Man once said "'Cause good fun azwai". |
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les_maverick
Lokahi
USA
238 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 04:47:36 AM
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Hey Peter:
I'm going to be on Oahu from 10/31 - 11/6
maybe we can hook up.
We are going to try and catch as much Oahu ki ho'alu
we can before heading over to the Big Island for a
couple of weeks.
Mahalo,
Les |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 07:19:57 AM
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Okay Les. Just let me know in advance and I will set aside some time for you. quote:
Originally posted by les_maverick
Hey Peter:
I'm going to be on Oahu from 10/31 - 11/6
maybe we can hook up.
We are going to try and catch as much Oahu ki ho'alu
we can before heading over to the Big Island for a
couple of weeks.
Mahalo,
Les
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 2:51:15 PM
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quote:
If any of you have the chance to take a lesson from Peter, jump on it. My three hours with him was invaluable.
I'll second that.  My three+ hours was spread over several weeks. I am still trying to absorb all of it -- kind of a time warp. I read what he wrote, listen to what he said . . . and it finally sinks in, a little bit. My brain is one stubborn buggah.
Peter, you have me in stitches on the other thread. I nevuh go fo stay long time in Aiea and Kahalu'u to learn fo kine pigin.  |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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