| Author |
 Topic  |
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2008 : 08:43:32 AM
|
I went to the green grocer today and spent, well, let's just say I ain't telling Paul nuttin! This is the time of the year when plenty of local fruits and veggies are at their best. Today, the store had plenty of "exotic" fruits. I did get a papaya and a couple of mangoes, but to tell you the truth, for what I know about selecting good fruits of this ilk, it is a crap-shoot as to whether it will be any good. So many times we've gotten ones that are practically rotten when they are cut open. Can anyone give pointers/education on how to choose the following:
Mango
Papaya
Guava
Lilikoi/Passion Fruit
Lychee
Mangosteen
Pineapple
Persimmon
We had persimmons down in W. Va., but we only had them after it frosted otherwise they were so sour you'd have a permanent pucker. We also had a fruit down there called pawpaw, which someone once told me was probably a papaya, but what I remember, it was nothing like a papaya, more like a banana.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
|
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 4:00:19 PM
|
Wanda,
Mangos here are just about hopeless as far as I can tell. A good base color (not the "blush") indicates it was picked riper, and it should be only slightly soft. I can't say I have had a good mango since I left Hawai'i (except in Honduras) but I have had a few edible ones among the many I have tossed.
Papaya turn yellow when ripe and should be slightly soft. Uniform softening is a good sign, soft in part and hard in part means it was picked quite green. "Sunrise Solo" papaya are best, and in general red fleshed papaya is better than orange.
Guava is pretty much hopeless.
Lilikoi ship well. The purple ones are better out of hand while the yellow ones have a strong flavor but are better in juice or sweetened some way. The skin is plump and glossy when fresh, but they can still be good even when the skin is quite wrinkled.
Lychee need to be firm and brightly colored- not good when they start to brown. Lychee (and their close relative rambutan) do not improve (ripen) after they have been picked, so they need to be picked ripe and transported quickly. Rambutan "spines" or "fur" can be browned, but not the skin itself.
Mangosteen are dangerous and completely inedible, especially when the skin is purple and gives to a firm poke. Express ship any of these you find directly to me and I will dispose of them properly for you. If the skin is brown or hard as a rock, you can safely allow them to be disposed of by your local grocer.
The old saw about a pineapple being ripe when a leaf from the crown comes out easily is only partially correct- what this actually means is that it was picked long ago, but that can also mean it is ripe. A good pineapple is mostly yellow, firm, and fragrant without a hint of fermentation. If you can find a white pineapple you can eat it green, as these have very little acid. Don't wait for a pineapple to get soft- just wait for it to smell good.
Persimmons come in three basic types- the Japanese Hachiya and Fuyu persimmons, and the American persimmon. A Fuyu persimmon can be eaten when it is slightly soft and a bit crunchy, as it does not have the astringency of an American or Hachiya persimmon. A Hachiya persimmon does not need frost but is highly astringent before it is fully ripe. Set these aside until the skin turns red and slightly translucent, and the flesh is VERY soft. Then they are delicious! Select persimmons that are fully orange but not yet soft, and set them aside to ripen. Persimmons can be picked fairly unripe and they will still be good even if they take weeks to ripen up. But go for dark orange, not pale.
A pawpaw is actually an Anona, related to cherimoya and soursops. I've never had one, but Cherimoya can be one of the best of fruits- if you wait for it to fall from the tree, then allow it to ripen. They should be somewhat, uniformly soft but not mushy- one day early or late and they are inedible.
I have your entire list growing and bearing in Waipi'o- and many, many more. But I have given up on trying to buy most of these fruits here; the quality just doesn't cut it. Like trying to eat a peach in Hawai'i. You might get really lucky if you keep trying, but your chances of winning the lottery are probably greater. Your best bet is to enjoy the local fruits, which are delicious and top quality, and try exotic fruits when you are visiting places where they are grown.
Chris
|
 |
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 4:32:14 PM
|
Chris - thanks so much for your expertise. About passion fruit - the ones I saw today were so varied in texture. Some were round and smooth and some were slightly wrinkled, as others were very shriveled.
I guess you are right about buying the local fruits. I just was thinking that maybe if there appeared to be a steady market for fruits that could/are grown in Hawai`i, then perhaps the quality of those would increase. I know there are plenty of things that do not transport well.
But I did get good peaches today, but from So.Carolina. It may be a couple three weeks before they are ready here in Ohio. I'm sure you'll be able to get them in Michigan, as well.
Would I be allowed to ship peaches to Hawai'i? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 6:06:18 PM
|
Basically none of that fruit comes from Hawai'i. Mediterrainian fruit flies are the supposed reason; the actual reason is powerful agricultural interests don't want competition from Hawai'i. Having been slightly involved in the decision to allow only a single cultivar of starfruit to be exported to the mainland (not because other varieties have fruit flies, but because that variety is only grown in the United States) I got a giimpse of the corrupt basis for these decisions. Med flies cannot survive in California or they would be there- they have arrived countless times over the years. And the rest of the country? Can't ship the produce to Alaska, either, although you can to Canada. Strictly an artificial trade barrier.
Sorry about the rant- I am a frustrated tropical fruit grower. A market for the stuff would be wonderful, and so many other things we could export to the mainland if agribusiness didn't control the system...
Chris |
|
|
|
Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2008 : 1:50:05 PM
|
| I agree with Chris' comments about buying mangos and papayas on the continent. I got inferior-tasting fruit so many times I just gave up. The only thing I'd add to Chris' criteria about pineapple is picking one that seems to be heavy for its size. I have gotten decent lychee at Uwajimaya (Guavasunrise's favor local beach) but I've only tried that once - I may have just gotten lucky. |
|
|
|
noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2008 : 9:21:07 PM
|
| Mangoes up heah funy kine. No mo smell no mo color. I nevah see so much ugly looking kine papaya. I nevah even buy um cause they look so scary. Lai chee so fah I get um from Safeway but da seed insai so small I tink das not lai chee from Hawaiʻi. But the regula kine fruits and berries up heah stay ono loa. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 07/20/2008 9:21:36 PM |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2008 : 11:23:31 PM
|
When I was at the green grocer, I bought lychee - 4 of them. I never tasted da real kine and did not want to buy a lot in case they were pilau. I nevah even know how fo eat da kine. I had to google to learn how foah eat. But ono dat. I need go get more. I had two and Paul had two.
Will the seeds grow into a plant? I hope so. I buried them in a pot with some houseplants to get TLC. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
Momi
Lokahi
402 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 05:54:47 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Will the seeds grow into a plant? I hope so. I buried them in a pot with some houseplants to get TLC.
I don't know how big a lychee tree has to get before it bears fruit, but I can tell you the one in my grandmother's back yard was eeeeeenormous - I would guess conservatively that it was over 40 feet tall. As with a lot of tree fruits, it was a race between her and the birds to see who would get more.
My mom makes a great dessert involving a kind of almond-flavored jello with shelled, pitted lychee. Mmmmm. |
|
|
|
marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 06:47:13 AM
|
the local asian market has great lychee, as well as durian (which is an acquired taste). the mango are okay, i think because they get fruit that is more ripe - big turnover makes it work for them.
a kama`aina friend of mine, now living in oceanside, grows liliko`i. i think that they taste better than the ones i find on maui.
then again, one should never forget the astute observations of mr. pole bendah: some like 'em sweet, and some like 'em sour...
aloha,
keith
|
|
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 5:28:59 PM
|
On growing lychee from seed: The USDA planted 450 acres of seedling lychee in Florida many years ago, hoping to develop new cultivars. Lychee take a long time to bear from seed. Once the trees were bearing, they cut them all down- none even came close to the quality of the cultivars from China.
Think about it- the Chinese developed air layering something like three thousand years ago. Lychee is a favorite fruit in China, so hundreds of millions of trees have been planted over the last 3000 years. Of all those trees, the best have been saved through air layering and are still available today. So on the average you would have to plant many millions of trees before you came up with a cultivar that matched the quality of the cultivars from China. Trying to grow lychee from seed is an exercise in futility.
Now there are many fruit that are worthwhile growing from seed. A good example is the mangosteen. Actually, technically the Mangosteen does not have seeds- they are (spelling?) hypocotol embryos. All mangosteen are female, and the "seeds" are clones of themselves. Variation comes only through random mutation.
Oops- I have lots to say on this subject, but I have to go to bed. More later, perhaps... |
|
|
|
marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 04:19:38 AM
|
quote:
Now there are many fruit that are worthwhile growing from seed.
I think that most fruit tree propagate better by grafting - apples and oranges are common examples.
Speaking of Hawaiian fruit, how did Ka`u get such great tasting but ugly looking oranges?
aloha,
keith
|
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 04:21:11 AM
|
| Momi - how to make the almond jello stuff? I ate it for breakfast every morning at the hotel when we stayed Waikiki. I think they called it "almond fluff". Onolicious. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 3:17:54 PM
|
"I think that most fruit tree propagate better by grafting - apples and oranges are common examples."
One potential problem with grafting is that you get an old- sometimes ancient- tree when you graft. This is no problem with many fruits but some trees do have a life span, and new variaties have to be developed because grafts from older trees don't live long.
Of course, in many cases this is actually an advantage, with oranges being a perfect example. Orange "seeds" are mostly pips, which will grow into a clone of the parent tree (however some are actually seeds and will turn out differently). Most old "Hawaiian" orange trees were planted from seed, yet are identical. Yet an orange tree can take thirty or more years to bear from seed. But if you graft it, it is already just the branch of an old tree, and will bear in one to three years if you let it (it is better to not let fruit trees bear until they are larger, as they may overbear and stunt their growth or kill themselves).
With apples, on the other hand, every seed will turn out different. Which is why in general it is best to plant a grafted apple tree- most seedlings will be junk. On the other hand, a hobbyist determined to develop a new apple planted a bunch of seedlings, and while most were worthless, one grew into the Yellow Delicious, one of the best and most popular apples commonly available today.
Kau oranges are ugly because of the climate- mostly because it is too warm. Oranges get the orangest in a marginal climate like California and Northern Florida, where frost is a threat to the trees. Plant the same oranges up mauka and they can be quite beautiful- if it isn't too wet and they get rust on the skin...
Dangerous to start a farmer on one of his favorite subjects!
Chris
Speaking of Hawaiian fruit, how did Ka`u get such great tasting but ugly looking oranges?
|
|
|
|
guitarded
Ha`aha`a
USA
1799 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 3:47:59 PM
|
Eh YPO, you went skool fo learn all dat o wat? Or you wen learn from digging in da dirt?
Ka'u oranges gotta be da best oranges I evah ate. My gramma had one tree at her house in Wahiawa. Da tree was kind of small but dat buggah used to pump out planny good sized supah sweet oranges. |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 3:59:04 PM
|
Apples trees, you want to prune so the energy goes into furiting, not into making leaves, etc. Eh, Johnny Appleseed went plant plenny trees from seeds all ovah da midwest. We have a tree in our back yard that is really two trees somehow twisted together. One is an apple tree and one is a crabapple. The apple half of the tree is some junk apples only get bug and worm holes. The crabapple part only makes a mess in the fall when the crabapples fall off and the yellow jackets get tipsy from dining on the fermented crabapples. And the deer come and have a snack, too.
Plenty fruits are planted on grafted root stock -- just about all grapes are, as are plenty other tree fruits. Heck, even roses. It is important to have strong root stock that can survive the rigors of the weather, but may not have desirable qualities for a commercial market. Just like my roses, though, don't let the grafted part gie, because the root stock will start growing and will bloom and they will not be the most attrative thing. Ha - jalike me -- sturdy breeding stock.
At the apple orchards around here, they chrai keep the trees short, able to reach fruit without climbing, and keep trimmed so not too many branches. Also do not forget espaliere. Really swell examples of this at both Mount Vernon and Monticello and Colonial Williamsburg.
Down home, there is a type of apple I have never seen anywhere else. It stays green, but is not like a Granny Smith When ripe the bright green gets more mellow looking kinda yellowish. But they are tart, but the BEST apples for frying. I love fried apples and fried apple pies. Fried apples and biscuits and bacon for breakfast, ono. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 4:01:03 PM
|
What exactly is a mountain apple? Is it actually an apple or what? And what are the berries or fruit that Pele is supposed to like?
Are there fruits indigenous only to Hawai`i? Did the breadfruit in Hawai`i get there by way of the Bounty? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
