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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2003 : 3:24:01 PM
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Aloha Mark,
I like your explanation, very clear to me except for one bit. You said,
Music comes from who we are -- the rhythms of our bodies inform every note and phrase. We have two strong pulses: the triple meter of our heartbeats and the duple meter of walking.
Grasshopper question - what did you mean by "the triple meter of our heartbeats?" 
(Alternately feeling the pulse by my Adam's apple and typing, only feeling thumps.)
Thank you, |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 03/18/2003 3:26:49 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 5:17:15 PM
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Good topic.
Anyone who knows me knows that if anyone tries to set up a standard, I just consider it target practice. Dogmatism of anykind - philosophical, religious or musical - only leads to polarization and groups fighting each other. AND ... I play with a lot of rubato (classical music's term for taking liberties with the timing for the sake of the artistry.) That being said -- I personally think it is important to be able to play in a consistent meter, and let go of it for the sake of the artistry. George Kahumoku is a great example -- when he gets in a groove he plays from the heart not the form, but when the guy wants to, he has a rock hard locked in sense of perfect timing -- and when he does it, it doesn't come out rigid. In that light, I think a metronone is a very useful tool, especially if someone if fairly new to music. Like most learning, it takes effort to "get it," and then effort to "let it go," and that extra knowledge does take one out of the context of a "folk" tradition (folk in the sense of hanging out on the porch and playing what garndpa taught me) "sophistication" doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Raymond |
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 4:26:01 PM
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Thanks for the feedback which has all been helpful.
My purpose of applying a metronome type device to my playing would simply be a tool to assist my sense of timing (can one apply timing where none preveously existed?). Many of you have stated that to truley play in the slack key tradition it must be from the heart or Aloha as Keola puts it, and applying the use of a metronome is counter to this development. I firmly believe that defining slack key by a sterile meter will detract from the sublime beauty which comes from the personality and heart that an individual player can put into it.
With that said, I must raise the point that I am learning from books and taped music and do not have the luxury of playing with others and or a physical teacher at this time. By playing from tableture we are translating oral tradition and applying rules which of course does not have the dynamic character or personality of the teacher. This learning is supplimented by a cd which we can play with and adds to the feeling, but to keep timing with the version of the song being practiced a player must adhere to the timing of the song on the CD which like the written music in and of itself is static and does not change. With this methodology a player may be able to play against a CD note for note and emulate the song but then what? A student can play a slack key song, but not slack key.
This is where I believe a metronome can come in and can be freeing, and assist a student to become a slack key player. Using a timing device as a tool, a student while practicing a song can take a song and experiment with improvisation and use the meter to help keep time, or allow the student to fall back into it. This type of training would be helpful when playing with others in recognizing beats that someone is playing and assist in transitioning from one pattern to another but maintaing timing and the overall flow.
Like the learning media that we have access to, I see the timing device as a reference point.
Excuse my rambling and bad grammer but I started to think.
Chris |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 6:25:33 PM
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Hi Pauline -
If you clap your heart beat, you'll get two evenly spaced beats with a beat of silence. There are many ways to count it. Us western types tend to hear it as One two three, with the heart pulse as One and Two, and beat three silent. (clap the silent beat with a light tap and you'll get it.
A more useful way to hear it is to groove a bit, where the first beat of the heart is beat three, the second beat one, and the silence beat two. (Much easier to hear and clap than to write...). So you have an accent moving into the down beat: three-One-two three-One-two.... and so on.
Triple rhythms with an accentted heart-beat pulse are found all over the world -- 6/8 with beats 6-1 and 3-4; & 9/8 with beats 9-1, 3-4 and 6-7 are the essense of Irish music, f'rinstance.
It's the overlay of the triple and duple meters that really gets things swinging: There's a serious heartbeat happening in Reggae and don't even get me started on African stuff.
So one way to think of swing is as 12 against 4.
But, like so many are saying, it's the push and pull of human time against the pulse that makes the music come alive.
BTW: We western guys also can't clap our hands properly to save our lives. Whether it's rock and roll or R & B -- or even bluegrass --- it's 2 and 4, dang it.
Which is where to set the metronome to help you find the swing in your practice.
Laters,
M
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 6:32:35 PM
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Thanks for translating what I wrote. It makes sense now.
It is so easy to fall into the trap of using the tabs as a crutch. I find myself playing sections in reverse sometimes, but instead of playing through it and correcting myself on the fly, I have ended up stopping since it is not written down and it mentally throws me off. I think that I am going to try to use the metronome to help me maintain a grove and see what happens.
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 01:27:46 AM
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Hi Mark,
I'm feeling so stupid here. First, I think now that you were talking about heartbeat and I was talking about pulse. I see those could be different. But how do I hear my heartbeat without a stethoscope or running stairs? Have I been missing out on something? I've heard recordings and other person's heartbeats, and maybe they go dub dub, dub dub, but I mostly forget. Or are you being metaphorical? I don't think so. |
Pauline |
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Stacey
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 09:54:25 AM
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| No wonder I'm always doing my own thing ~ I have an irregular heartbeat! |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 1:54:38 PM
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Pauline -
Believe it or not, you can learn to hear you heartbeat -- or at least tune into it, which is the same thing. It requires quiet, and calm -- much the same thing as music, actually.
But, since we are talking in generalities here, any human heartbeat will do -- actually, any two chambered mamalian heart will probably suffice. You don't need a stethoscope, just you ear and a willing partner (yep, Tantric music..). Or listen to any of the recording out there for calming babies -- Mickie Hart did a cool one a million years ago.
Yours for Lub and Dub,
M |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 2:04:29 PM
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Mark,
Thanks. I will try that. |
Pauline |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 11:05:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
actually, any two chambered mamalian heart will probably suffice.
Use your dog as a pillow (I wouldn't advise it with a cat).
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 6:25:18 PM
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That would be: "Oooops."
Your's for continuing education,
Mark |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 8:53:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Your's for continuing education
That would be "yours!" 
(I'm so mean)
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 03/23/2003 8:57:09 PM |
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