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 Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! Silent Night
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alika207
Ha`aha`a

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  05:44:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit alika207's Homepage  Send alika207 an AOL message  Click to see alika207's MSN Messenger address  Send alika207 a Yahoo! Message
Aloha...

Please help me. I'm figuring out "Silent Night" in the key of C and have a question for an 'ukulele expert out there. When I get to the first "sleep in heavenly peace", I can't do the chord on "heavenly." From the G string to the A string I'm trying to go: 1, 2, 7, 8, and it's such a big stretch that I can't do it. I want it to be an E-7-Augmented with the F on top because I'm doing chords and melody at the same time. My teacher said, "You know, you can just stay on G-7 if you want to", but I really wanna challenge myself and be fancy. Can someone please help me out? Mahalo nui!

He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.

'Alika / Polinahe

Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a

USA
1579 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  06:15:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Fran Guidry's Homepage
First, a G-7 Augmented is not a chord I've ever heard specified. I usually see augmented chords used without other color notes. Still, it's possible to use normal chord naming to come up with something that might be referred to as a G-7 augmented, I guess. This would be G (tonic) B (third) D# (augmented fifth) F (dominant 7).

I don't see a G-7 Augmented in the chord you spelled to start: 1 2 7 8 spells G# D B F which I read as an E(tacet)flat9 (an E9 would have an F#).

Still, we can find the notes you listed in a different inversion: 7 8 7 8 spells D G# B F, same notes you chose but in an easy to reach arrangement. However, as soon as I put my fingers down on this chord I recognized it as a diminished seventh chord, a very common passing chord. This wonderful chord has some unusual properties, including taking its name from any of its notes, and repeating every three frets.

If you really want a G dom7 augmented with the F on the first string, try 8 7 8 8 : D# G B F - a cool sounding chord.

(heavily edited to correct early morning fogginess)

Fran

E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog

Edited by - Fran Guidry on 11/22/2008 09:07:09 AM
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Mark
Ha`aha`a

USA
1628 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  09:43:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage
Couple thoughts--

For the benefit of anyone interested in learning this song-- in the key of C, the first few melody notes are all found in a C6 chord. With re-entrant tuning, you can play it all with open strings. (Hint: G-A-G-C)

From there, the melody pretty closely follows the chords. Figure it out, and you will learn many important things.

Now, to the question at hand:

To me, using the Fdim (7-8-7-8) as a passing chord doesn't cut it because you are going from a G to an Fdim back to a G.

Nor would an E7+, cuz the melody note is not in that chord. (You'd have to play an E7b9--one voicing of which which looks suspiciously like that Fdim Fran suggested....).

But in both cases you get a g to g# thing going that is difficult to resolve. (Or not-- I happen to love minor seconds.)

The melody note is the 7th of the G (an F on the 8th fret) and the rest of the phrase just walks down the rest of the G7 chord ("Heav-en-ly = 7-5-2). So some kind of a G 7th would be a good way to go.

Try a G11 (aka G7sus): 7-7-8-8. (Which you could call a E7#5b9 if you wanted to force the bass player to play an E note...Or you could play your E+9 this way: 9-8-8-8 -- which kinda sounds cool, depending on where you go next.)

I also like a G9 here= 7-9-7-8.

If you really want to force the bass away from the G, try this:since the F is the third of a Dmin, you can have a sweet little ii7-V7 thing going.

Depending on what else you did leading up to it, this might sound good:

"Sleep" G11 = 0-5-0-5

"in" passing tone at 7, or D9 (5-5-5-7)

"Heav-" Dm7 = 7-9-8-8

"-en-" D11 = 5-7-5-5

"-ly" G9 =2-2-1-2

From there, I might play the next two melody notes as the top voices of an ascending pair of C6 chords: 2-4-3-3 and 5-7-5-7. Or not.

Have fun and happy uke-in'!
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alika207
Ha`aha`a

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  09:59:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit alika207's Homepage  Send alika207 an AOL message  Click to see alika207's MSN Messenger address  Send alika207 a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by Mark

Couple thoughts--

For the benefit of anyone interested in learning this song-- in the key of C, the first few melody notes are all found in a C6 chord. With re-entrant tuning, you can play it all with open strings. (Hint: G-A-G-C)

From there, the melody pretty closely follows the chords. Figure it out, and you will learn many important things.

Now, to the question at hand:

To me, using the Fdim (7-8-7-8) as a passing chord doesn't cut it because you are going from a G to an Fdim back to a G.

Nor would an E7+, cuz the melody note is not in that chord. (You'd have to play an E7b9--one voicing of which which looks suspiciously like that Fdim Fran suggested....).

But in both cases you get a g to g# thing going that is difficult to resolve. (Or not-- I happen to love minor seconds.)

The melody note is the 7th of the G (an F on the 8th fret) and the rest of the phrase just walks down the rest of the G7 chord ("Heav-en-ly = 7-5-2). So some kind of a G 7th would be a good way to go.

Try a G11 (aka G7sus): 7-7-8-8. (Which you could call a E7#5b9 if you wanted to force the bass player to play an E note...Or you could play your E+9 this way: 9-8-8-8 -- which kinda sounds cool, depending on where you go next.)

I also like a G9 here= 7-9-7-8.

If you really want to force the bass away from the G, try this:since the F is the third of a Dmin, you can have a sweet little ii7-V7 thing going.

Depending on what else you did leading up to it, this might sound good:

"Sleep" G11 = 0-5-0-5

"in" passing tone at 7, or D9 (5-5-5-7)

"Heav-" Dm7 = 7-9-8-8

"-en-" D11 = 5-7-5-5

"-ly" G9 =2-2-1-2

From there, I might play the next two melody notes as the top voices of an ascending pair of C6 chords: 2-4-3-3 and 5-7-5-7. Or not.

Have fun and happy uke-in'!


Does anyone mind if we do it over the phone or something? I think it may be beneficial if someone hears what I want to do and I hear what your thoughts are. It would have to be phone, probably, cuz I no have skype.

He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.

'Alika / Polinahe
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alika207
Ha`aha`a

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  11:02:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit alika207's Homepage  Send alika207 an AOL message  Click to see alika207's MSN Messenger address  Send alika207 a Yahoo! Message
Sorry. I realized after I made my first post here that I called the chord by the wrong name. It would be... more like an F diminished 6. And I'm actually doing it as a passing chord to A-minor, and then to D 9. I like the effect of the low G string going from G to G# (or AA) to A. Sorry, my voice teacher told me that there's a difference between the enharmonic notes i.e. G# and AA, A# and BB, etc, but neither of us know what it is. Anybody know?

Also, back to the original topic, I'm only strumming chords on every downbeat.

He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.

'Alika / Polinahe

Edited by - alika207 on 11/22/2008 11:07:06 AM
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RJS
Ha`aha`a

1635 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  11:47:55 AM  Show Profile
I haven't been able to hear the difference between a G# and an Ab on a keyboard instrument or a fretted instrument. I can at times hear it on a non-fretted string instrument where the player can shade the note depending if it's slightly up or down. I have a friend who plays a non-fretted guitar and, because of the way he plays it, I can hear the difference there. It is quite subtle and at my level of playing it doesn't make enough difference to sweat it. I mostly just use the right accidental sign to help me read the chord faster, e.g. it's easier to "read" a Gm when I see the Bb as opposed to A#. It's sort of reading by reflex as opposed to stopping and figuring things out.
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hikabe
Lokahi

USA
358 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  3:06:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit hikabe's Homepage
The chord you are trying to get, 1,2,7 8 is possible if your left hand pointer is on 1, middle on 2, pinky on 7 and your right hand pointer is pressing on 8 while strumming with your right hand thumb. Unusual, but nice effect.
It would be easier to play 3 diminished chords in a row, from the 7 to 4th to 1st fret, to outline the melody. That takes you to the first fret, sounding the g# on the bass string that you are trying hard to incorporate in your voicings.

Stay Tuned...
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hawaiianmusiclover06
`Olu`olu

USA
562 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2008 :  10:59:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit hawaiianmusiclover06's Homepage  Send hawaiianmusiclover06 an AOL message  Click to see hawaiianmusiclover06's MSN Messenger address  Send hawaiianmusiclover06 a Yahoo! Message
'Alika... talk about dejavu here. I am learning how to finger pick Silent night too from my teacher. I have to say finger picking is not that easy but I am getting the hang of it.

Alana :)

Aloha Kakou, maluhia a me aloha mau loa (Hello everyone, peace and love forever)
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Mark
Ha`aha`a

USA
1628 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  09:49:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage
quote:
The chord you are trying to get, 1,2,7 8 is possible if your left hand pointer is on 1, middle on 2, pinky on 7 and your right hand pointer is pressing on 8 while strumming with your right hand thumb. Unusual, but nice effect.


Leave it to the maestro to come up with that!

I was curious to see what you'd add to this post, Hiram. Yowsa!




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hikabe
Lokahi

USA
358 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  10:01:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit hikabe's Homepage
[quote]Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138

Sorry, my voice teacher told me that there's a difference between the enharmonic notes i.e. G# and AA, A# and BB, etc, but neither of us know what it is. Anybody know?

There is no difference in sound of enharmonics. Bb and A# both vibrate at the same frequency. The difference is in the treatment and identification of the note, which is dictated by the key a piece is written in. The Bb is a Bb in the key of F major but is an A# in the key of B major.

Here's something to think about. When you hit a single note on any instrument, therein lies every other note. If you are partial to that way of thinking, you may be enlighened to the fact that white light contains all colors. Therefore, sound and light is enharmonic.

Anyway. Silent night is a beautiful song. I like what you're doing with it. Good luck...

Stay Tuned...
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hikabe
Lokahi

USA
358 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  10:29:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit hikabe's Homepage
[quote]Originally posted by hawaiianmusicfan138

[quote]Originally posted by Mark

Couple thoughts--

"Sleep" G11 = 0-5-0-5

"in" passing tone at 7, or D9 (5-5-5-7)

"Heav-" Dm7 = 7-9-8-8

"-en-" D11 = 5-7-5-5

"-ly" G9 =2-2-1-2

From there, I might play the next two melody notes as the top voices of an ascending pair of C6 chords: 2-4-3-3 and 5-7-5-7. Or not.


Mark,
Very nice. I love it. But it might not fit HiFan138's style and what she has worked out already. Maybe not! It's hard to know with such little info. Thanks bro...

Stay Tuned...
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alika207
Ha`aha`a

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  1:25:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit alika207's Homepage  Send alika207 an AOL message  Click to see alika207's MSN Messenger address  Send alika207 a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by hikabe

The chord you are trying to get, 1,2,7 8 is possible if your left hand pointer is on 1, middle on 2, pinky on 7 and your right hand pointer is pressing on 8 while strumming with your right hand thumb. Unusual, but nice effect.
It would be easier to play 3 diminished chords in a row, from the 7 to 4th to 1st fret, to outline the melody. That takes you to the first fret, sounding the g# on the bass string that you are trying hard to incorporate in your voicings.


Could you record that and e-mail it to me? I want to try it but would like to hear it first so I can understand better. Mahalo.

He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.

'Alika / Polinahe
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hikabe
Lokahi

USA
358 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  2:27:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit hikabe's Homepage
I uploaded a you tube of three examples. The first is what I think you mean by 1,2,7,8, using the right hand to fret the 8. The second example is 3 diminished chords starting on fret 7 to 4 to 1. The third example is Marks version. Happy holidays!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozs1iBIBwIg

Stay Tuned...
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Mark
Ha`aha`a

USA
1628 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2008 :  10:00:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage
Thanks, Hiram.

Ya know, I'd love to see the look on the face of some unsuspecting soul who stumbles upon this vid looking for a nice ukulele arrangement of Silent Night.

"Dude, that is like so not the song...."
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alika207
Ha`aha`a

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2008 :  12:30:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit alika207's Homepage  Send alika207 an AOL message  Click to see alika207's MSN Messenger address  Send alika207 a Yahoo! Message
Mahalo nui loa. You've been a great help.

He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.

'Alika / Polinahe
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hikabe
Lokahi

USA
358 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2008 :  3:35:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit hikabe's Homepage
Here is a better version of Silent Night. Sorry Mark, I forgot to throw your riff in it. I'm deleting the sample tube so the dude doesn't freak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUIaTc2f9fc

Stay Tuned...
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