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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2009 : 5:09:46 PM
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This topic was prompted by a similar discussion involving defining whether a piece of music is "slack key."
Seems like it's always a touchy issue when a cultural practice (i.e. slack key) is also a commercial enterprise. I think hula probably faces similar issues as a cultural practice that is also marketed and sold as a service/product in the market. What do you folks think about where the balance should be (if there should be a balance)? Should we refrain from selling products under the label of "slack key?" Is it ok to sell music under the product name of "slack key" as long as it's in a tuning other than EADGBE? Is there some criteria that should be met before we sell something and call it "slack key?" I'm not expressing any opinions, but am curious to hear what everyone thinks.
And of course, ditto on the comment about keeping comments civil. This community has always been remarkably good at that.
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Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 5:36:19 PM
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Hawaiian music is more than a bunch of words and notes, to some it is the embodiment of the culture, which is specifically indentified with a diminishing race of people who have lost their land, their language and their traditions. We should be sensitive to people's feelings about how it is adapted and used in different settings.
I'm not sure that anyone questions whether a musician should make money playing music. Locals do care about how the artist learned it and represents it to people outside the islands and the tradition. Did the artist learn from Hawaiian teachers? Does the artist represent the aloha? Does the artist honor kupuna with the music? Does the artist represent ha'aha'a (humility)?
Jesse Tinsley |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 6:02:11 PM
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Darin - to me this is like what is called "country" music today compared to the "country" music I grew up on such as the Carter Family, Bill Monroe, Roy Acuff, Earl Scruggs. And even they were new style compared to what my mother listened to. But to me today, country music is not country music. It is rock & roll.
You can call it whatever you like, but in my heart I know what it isn't, and I only BUY that which is real and honest. That is why you will see umpteen tons of Hawaiian music in our CD drawers, but not one single CD of modern country music.
No different than Amish people selling their "heritage" by hosting family style dinners for the "English" who drive down from Cleveland or over from Columbus.
Or when you see on the info-mercials on the TV about the "Amish-made" heater that looks like a faire place. The heating mechanism is made in China and the mantle, well, it is made in Ohio, but not by Amish, but they are using that connection to sell the merchandise. What Amish is going to yell about it? They will never see it on TV because they nomo electricity. But some marketing guy decided that the reputation for fine furniture workmanship of Amish craftsmen would sell his high priced heaters, especially since on the commercial they tell you they will give you the heater for free if you buy the "Amish-made" mantle.
This topic is exactly why some time bqck, I posted q thread asking if we mainland haoles are kakaroaching the music. I cam to the realization that we can try to do so, but it never sounds authentic. It mostly sounds close, if a lot of bloods, sweat, tears and HEART are put into it, but most times it just never hits the mark. I hate to say this, but no matter how hard Paul will practice, he will never sound like Duke. Paul has 30-some years of bieng a haole, Italian city boy from Garfield Hts. guitar picker to over come. Duke has it in his blood.
So after all that rambling, may I please sum it up: I no kea wot dey callem, I still oni like lissen to dakine an I oni buy dakine, fo realz.
(But I would rather the name given to the type of music be accurate, i.e.. modern country or pseudo-country.) |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 02/11/2009 6:02:49 PM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 6:13:00 PM
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This is a good topic and has many levels to it. On the one hand I am in full sympathy with Jesse's comments. I've invested a lot to learn "from the source." Personally I don't bill myself as a "Hawaiian slack key player." I also try to make a distinction between when I play in a more traditional style (one which was "ok'd" by a few teachers,) and when I play in what I call a "slack key influenced" style. At least when people hire me to play, I try to explain the difference and ask them what they want. (Usually people hire me who heard me before, and usually they want a mix of both.)
On the other hand, once Hawaiians recorded and sold their music in non-Hawaiian venues, they brought the music into the "marketplace." Once that happens other musicians can and will use that music, and those styles, in any way they want. There is a reciprocity to that -- as we all know, hymnody, jazz, ragtime, swing, latin, reggae, rap, etc etc have all become part of the "Hawaiian mix," too. It would be nice if non-Hawaiians using Hawaiian themes, music and styles showed sensitivity to the originating culture and artists, but lets face it, sensitivity is a rare thing to come by nowadays.
As far as slack key goes, as well as other forms of Hawaiian music and hula, it's too late to pull it off the market. The genie is out of the bottle. Nor do I think we should. Rather, those who play from the genuine tradition should, IMO, learn better how to promote themselves and their music. Let's face it, if Ozzie, Dennis, etc etc promoted themselves and their music as well as Daniel Ho promotes his music and his label, a lot more people would know a lot more about slack key. A wide spread of knowledge and understanding would go a long long way to making this topic irrelevant.
Of course, a part of slack key is the "ohana" context, and the mutual sharing in an atmosphere of aloha. Heavy promotion does conflict with that. It comes to a very personal decision. I think you can be a promoter and maintain personal integrity. Ain't always easy, but who ever said life was easy, or fair for that matter. I've always taken the attitude that if your going to gripe about something (not accusing you Darin of griping - this is a good topic) but if you're going to gripe, you would be a heck of a lot better off trying to do something to fix whatever you're griping about. IMO exposure and knowledge are important ways of "fixing things" as far as slack key is concerned. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 07:16:29 AM
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Hapa-haole music from Bing Crosby, Webley Edwards, Marty Robbins and Jerry Byrd makes people think of palm trees and beaches. But music created by Hawaiians (and some others adopted into the culture) and sung in their language has so much more power because it carries the joys and sadness of a unique race of people. Without knowing about the people, I don't think you have a perspective from which to enjoy the music.
If you put Hawaiian music, of any kind, on a plastic disc and put a picture of a palm tree on the cover and try to sell it at Walmart to someone who has no knowledge of where it camer from, I think the music is empty. And if that little plastic disc sells well, or wins a major music award, it becomes the new definition of Hawaiian music to people everywhere. It happened with records from Arthur Lyman, Jerry Byrd and Iz. Lately it's been Grammy-winning slack key. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 12:14:50 PM
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| It's one of the great issues facing any indifinous culture as it interfaces with the commercial oriented marketplace. Guatemalan Maya has a great tradition of weaving - the weavings contained patterns and symbols unique to a group, village, even family. These people proudly "wore" their history and their identity, and they were immediately recognizable to each other. Now Mayan textiles are a great business. (I don't begridge people a livelihood) and have lost much of their mana. In fact there are lots of factory made "Mayan textiles," which can be beautiful but have none of the energy of the real thing. Sounds a lot like Hawaiian music, no? |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 1:21:41 PM
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Are you true to a tradition? If commercially successful, are you a "sell out?" Art is so subjective.
You cannot define an "accepted criteria" for what is ok to sell as "slack key." Who would define it? Who would enforce it? Isn't it a moving target? In the end, I suppose the market will decide... rightfully or wrongly. Do you consider what you hear on the radio to be the best music and/or the best musicians?
In relation to Hawaiian music, this subject of "what is slack key" can be a fun discussion. Other times, it is not so fun. Thankfully, those in the 'patch have interesting and constructive discussions, more often than not. Discussion is healthy. And my point here is not reflecting what I think "slack key" is or should be.
All I know is that an award is not going to define what I believe. I am still bothered that Jethro Tull won the 1989 Grammy for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance.
It's art. You can sell whatever you want and call it what you like. It is was it is. If you record yourself beating a drum and call it slack key, I may not agree; but I am not going to stop you. Just my thoughts on Darin's question. |
Andy |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 1:47:49 PM
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Upon accepting a Grammy award last week for Raising Sand, Robert Plant quipped “in the old days, we would have called this selling out.” I don’t know if he was referring to the pairing of a rock star with a bluegrass musician, or just going to the awards ceremony. But it got me to thinking about how music evolves and changes. The labels, like “country music” or “slack key,” e.g., Ray Kane and Chris Yeaton, can become archaic pretty fast. Seems to me it’s about place, time and memory.
Larry
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 5:01:02 PM
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I have a recording of "Sidewalks Of New York" by Raymond Kane. Also, "Stray Cat Strut" by Na Oiwi, which included Dennis and David Kamakahi, Mike Ka`awa and Jon Yamasato. I won't ask if these constitute Hawaiian Music, if Y'all promise not to answer. I just like to listen to music. Wanda listens to very little non-Hawaiian music, but the male of the houshold still listens to a wide variety. Ki Ho`alu is the predominant style these days, but the others still command some attention.
But if Maile from Miloli`i chooses to express her musical tastes through a decidedly R&B style, is that wrong? Should we tell her not to do so? I may not choose to buy it, but that's a choice dictated by my own preferences, not by desires for ethnic purity. All four of my grandparents were born in Italy. My father's taste in music leaned decidedly towards Enrico Caruso and Mario Lanza. My mother's taste still prefers Dean Martin over anyone else. So I heard very classic Italian music, and a generous helping of pseudo- Italian, mostly written by Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern, etc. My fellow siblings were mostly Rock listeners, though some other stuff crept in. So now is your chance to tell me what I'm supposed to play. Just don't couunt on me to do so. Last week Wanda declared I can't play "DA Blues", now she's telling us I can't play slack key, either. I think I'll play "Whipping Post" on my banjo, that should get sparks flying. I may be the one getting burned, though. But look at what the whole music buisness is like: Jazz festivals include Rap, Hip-Hop and the syrupy meanderings of such as Kenny G. I don't consider that jazz, any more than I consider Led Zepplin's covers of Lead Belly and Memphis Minnie songs Blues.A whole category has sprung up called "Alternative"- I thought all styles were alternatives to each other. Most of what is called Cowboy Music now is Hollywood Movie stuff, with a huge amount of Swing in it. The music industry will always try to homogenize music to appeal to the largest number of people. The styles that can't be remade to conform to this mold will get little industry support. That's why it is difficult.
Paul
Edited to corregt spelling. |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 02/13/2009 02:09:38 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 7:30:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
I am still bothered that Jethro Tull won the 1989 Grammy for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance.
That has ALWAYS cracked me up (it was the first year for the award, and I wasn't a voter yet, either, as if that would have made any difference).
It's touchy when an artistic style is closely linked with an ethnic/racial/national peoples. Should there be any hip-hoppers or jazz musicians of European ancestry? Should there be any African-American classical composers? Should Mark Nelson get to play all the great styles of music he plays?
I vote with my dollars (kinda like Wanda) and with my ears. |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2169 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2009 : 2:48:04 PM
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| People are capable of friendship, respect and love. As a citizen of this planet, I am at times curious about my neighbors and they can at times be curious about me. Information is thusly exchanged and we come to a better understanding of life on the planet and have a better appreciation of the folks that inhabit it with us. The polka was developed by Czech peasants, the accordion was a combination of blacksmith's bellows and the "chiang", a free reed instrument originally from China. Potato pancakes are from a plant originally from South America. Yesterday's innovation is today's modus operandi and tomorrow's hallowed tradition. There is nothing so constant as change. Bring something to the potluck, try something new and say "thanks" to the friends that educated your palet. Humans love tradition, and imitating, borrowing and innovating are traditional. |
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