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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2004 : 7:36:22 PM
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Mark's point is well taken. Even in this somewhat tense conversation, I think we can all appreciate his losses from unauthorized sharing. As an artist and a minority in this conversation, I appreciate his willingness to share his views.
But enforcing American legalities of copyright on Hawaiian culture still seems un-Hawaiian, turning the music into what we are all trying to get away from when we listen to and play Hawaiian music. I guess it's a different era.
Jesse Tinsley
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 8:20:17 PM
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Not sure, there ....
Keola loves to tell the story of how he was a kid and was listening to someone of a different ohana play slack key - and how the guy turned his back to Keola so he couldn't "learn" the tuning. Other Masters have spoken in public of how hard to used to be to learn -- even non slack key musicians who are now in the 40's - 80's have spoken of how hard it was to learn (in fact, I think 4 artists spoke about that on last summer's Nahenahe series.)
Maybe the image of sitting around and sharing isn't always what it was really like. And maybe a way of protecting the artist's rights while opening a channel for sharing isn't such a bad idea. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 8:25:46 PM
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While Western notions of ownership and intellectual property don't necessarily map onto Hawaiian tradition very well, I think it's oversimplifying to see the culture as one of endless, costless sharing. Let's not forget that not so long ago many Hawaiians concealed from outsiders (including other Hawaiians) the musical practices that they considered their own and their families'. Stories about the difficulties of learning from people outside the `ohana are all over--players younger than I am have personal recollections of this secretiveness (Keola and Led, for example).
Keola's reading of the phenomenon--that it was a response to having lost practically everything else of material and cultural value--strikes me as psychologically true. But I wonder whether it is not also in part a survival of pre-Contact notions of ownership or control of the immaterial--maybe something more like "privacy" or "family matters" than our notion of buy-and-sell ownership. The idea of "kapu" seems to apply here--it's the word that Uncle Ray used when he told me his trading-fish story.
(Then there's the old Hawaiian social system, which to me looks a lot like feudalism. When native feudal/aristocratic "ownership" of the land and resources encountered Western capitalism, the outcome was the dispossession of ordinary Hawaiians--but that's another discussion.)
In any case, Hawaiian culture seems to this outsider to be miraculously generous and hospitable, but I'm cautious about predicting particular behaviors or reactions based on that impression.
[I see that Raymond beat me to the point about secretiveness, but I'll let my more long-winded version stand--I just came back to correct the spelling.]
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 05/10/2004 8:42:50 PM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 11:35:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
I most certainly do want you to learn and play my songs. & arrangements... heck, I write a lot of instructional books, remember? Nor do I care if you TAB 'em out from the records--- as I said, it's the best way to learn. All I ask is that you don't pass around the TAB without my permission... just as I won't pass around Ozzie's, or Keola's, or anyone else's.
Ah, my misunderstanding...I agree with you completely then.  |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 11:55:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapakid
But enforcing American legalities of copyright on Hawaiian culture still seems un-Hawaiian
Perhaps, but taking something from Hawaiian culture without asking permission sure seems American. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 05/10/2004 11:56:06 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2004 : 03:37:21 AM
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A rambling message about Hawaiian music:
I agree with Craig that taking something from Hawaiian culture without permission is wrong, in music or any other area of life. But who owns the culture? It belongs to all of us who love it and are willing to perpetuate it. Who owns a song, and to what degree, is what we've been discussing here.
I've never used a TAB in my 30 years of guitar playing, which is mostly for fun. I've never wanted to exactly replicate someone's else's song. That doesn't seem very Hawaiian either as many of the island musicians I know rarely play a song the same way twice. Polynesians are a stubborn bunch. And I don't play solo guitar pieces because I'm not that good at it and because I would rather sing (God help us all).
Two things happened recently that made me think about music on a deeper level. First, I heard Carole King sing "You've Got a Friend" at a political fundraiser. After she stumped for John Kerry, she sang an impromptu version of that old tune and middle-aged political party activists were crying quietly while she played. They mobbed her afterwards and many told her about a time when that song meant something special to them, probably in junior high when a boyfriend/girlfriend dumped them. I asked Carole who did the most unusual cover version of that song. She didn't care, she said, she just cashed the checks!
The second thing was a question from a friend, who is into whatever music is hip this week. He asked "What's so special about Hawaiian music?"
I didn't have an answer that satisfied him, because he could care less. But I realized later that the essense of Hawaiian music is not just about melody or instrumentation or lyrics. The music is about the place, the 'aina aloha. If you hear it and you're in line at a Walmart in Alabama, it probably doesn't make sense to you. When you listen to it in the right frame of mind, or you're in the islands, the music makes you glad you live in Hawaii, or glad you're Hawaiian, or wish you lived there, or wish you were there on vacation, or wish you could go there someday for the first time or just conjures up a vision of the Hawai'i off a postcard. For mainlanders, Hawaiian or caucasion, the music teleports your mind to the islands.
These two experiences made me see the power of the music to touch hearts, even 35 years after "You've Got A Friend" was written, and also the power of music to create a feeling of aloha and relaxation that a ticket on United Airlines and a week in a beachfront hotel can't give you (or at least guarantee you!).
And a lot of us play the music to be a part of the aloha spirit that is in the music.
Others have brought up the secretive nature of some slack key players and that sharing is not a given in Hawaiian culture. That's true. Although music is shared voluntarily in many places, I agree that taking it is not a right. To tab a song and distribute it en masse is wrong. But to play the song as imitation is to honor the spirit the song was written and recorded in. So using a song for this purpose is, to me, a kind of therapy for what ails you in our stressful lives.
As a photojournalist, I am often asked why I "take" a picture and just walk away. Aren't I taking something for free?
I reply with some concepts I use to guide my work. One is that there were no photographs before I got there. I "made" the picture using technology. I also do it with the sole purpose of sharing it with my readers for educational purposes, not for personal gain or illegal appropriation (selling for commercial use). I believe that photojournalism has a net benefit for society and so I do it the best I can for this purpose.
I think music is similar in that good music spreads good feelings, good will, and even education, so I pick up my guitar and uke and go play luaus. When I see people closing their eyes and nodding along, I know they're in the islands, too. Or maybe it was too much kalua pua'a....
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 05/11/2004 03:41:01 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 02:48:39 AM
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I asked Ozzie for his thoughts on the matter. Here is his response:
Aloha Craig,
Sure, I'll throw in my two cents worth since "tabbing" has been a focus of mine periodically over the years. One of the things that has always puzzled me - and it sometimes still does - is why haven't more of the players - especially the teachers - (other than myself and Keola) created tablatures? It is simple enough right? I learned about it from Keola's groundbreaking instructional book he came out with in the '70's. Since I don't read music, it was the perfect way for me to put the music on paper. I never learned from tablature - period. Even when my first teacher, Peter Medeiros, passed them out in class I found it easier and more comfortable to find it by ear - sure I looked at and "studied" the sheets - but I would say I learned more by listening and trying to sound the same.
It was only when I began teaching that I found a need for using tabs - it was not easy for most students to learn in the traditional manner. I actually bought a music tablet (with clefs!) and drew a sixth line by hand to create worksheets to tab on - I could not find tablature blanks and back then I did not have computer resources we all have access to now. Some of you may have copies of these early tabs - you'll see the treble clef and a hand written time signature (which I stopped using after a while).
The reason for the multitude of tabs I created? Requests. Period. Requests from my students to learn this or that song. Some I knew, some I figured out after awhile by listening as I had done for years using my dependable tape recorder to rewind repeatedly. Boy - those seem like the dark ages. Now, many of the albums reveal the tunings being played - my generation never had that luxury. That's why I often figured out the song in the wrong tuning! But it was always sounded pretty close in my estimation and showed the student where and how it might be happening.
I never gave thought of whether it was right or wrong to do what I was doing back then - I just felt it was what I wanted to do as a teacher - to be able to provide what the student wanted if I could. There were other factors back then too - reflecting where my head was at regarding acceptance and approval - that influenced my actions. I just wanted to help people play slack key. I wrote the wrong title, or misspelled the Hawaiian, failed to credit the composer, etc. Yet, I did things like bring players and other teachers to my classes at UH (after I surfaced and became accepted and "validated" after my first solo recording, "Classical Slack" was released). No one has ever scolded or warned me of doing wrong - at least not to my face.
I put teaching first - wrong as it might be - I thought of Sonny and his patience and kindness in sharing with someone who did not have a drop of Hawaiian blood. Slack key was my love, it brought light into my world and it was a wonderful world to explore - the fire burned! It hasn't gone out but I sure don't have the fuel I once had or that's the way it seems sometimes.
Back to tabs. I opened repertoire on my own after my lessons with Sonny - I also relished the challenge of figuring out songs requested by students - and reveled in the completion of doing so! Hey, I can play that song now! You all know the feeling - it fuels the fire. Being able to play a lot of songs enabled me to become a bit more versatile as a teacher and entrenched me in the tradition. THAT is a major point. I also strongly believe that one must be able to play the song in order to create the tablature for it.
Okay, lets look at the questions. The one that wasn't asked is "Can tab be shared if the creator has copyrighted it?" Hey - what about copyrights? I now write my name, date, and the "c in the circle" to address copyright - whether it is sufficient enough I don't know. I have had to serve a cease and desist after my name was taken off my tabs and sold; I've approached an instructor in Honolulu who had compiled my tabs and was selling it to his students!!! Who knows what is happening on the mainland. Answer this copyright question and a lot of other questions should be answered.
That statement, "What harm is there in sharing tab, especially slack key. Isn't it Hawaiian to share?" Boy, maybe I should counter, "What harm is there in sharing copies of my favorite book, especially American novels. Isn't it American to share?" The bottom line is - if you don't profit from it - and the motivation is to truly "share" - there probably is no harm. Except when the composer/tab creator publishes and his/her tab is already distributed there will not be any profit for the work. You think slack key came overnight for us? Do you know how many years of playing and studying has gone into learning the style and repertoire? And there are so FEW advanced players in this style!!
What about the dilution of the tradition? Where does it become "playing in alternate tuning?" What are the aspects of "traditional" slack key? What is considered "standard" repertoire in that vein? How many out there know the answers? My concern is players outside the tradition who see a niche to publish with little concern for what makes slack key unique. I was being paid as an instructor when I created many tabs so I'm guilty of infringements of sorts. I could trash all of them now that I only teach privately and through workshops periodically. My focus was perpetuation of the tradition although I'd be the first to say I stray out of it all the time - my recordings strongly reflect that. What people don't know is how I teach and what I emphasize as "foundational within the tradition." I also did not start teaching until after I had played for over 6 years and had opened significant repertoire. I have been accused of "documenting" which makes for little fun for those challenged by timing and technique despite my efforts to explain my encouragement to just reference the tabs. Recently, I have focused on "playability" - what is the easiest way for someone to play a song.
Anyway, this is getting way too long and I am exhausted from a busy day without enough sleep. Hope I made a little sense and didn't piss anybody off too much. I'm just a slacker after all.
Warmest Aloha,
Ozzie
P.S. I have never made a living on slack key. Gabby and Sonny (of all people) told me not to - I would starve. I have always worked full-time with music as a hobby. It allows me to do what I want to do at times.
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 05/12/2004 4:38:25 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 4:13:15 PM
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It's nice to hear from a performer and teacher like Ozzie, especially that he notes that there are multiple issues to be weighed in this discussion. Without putting his foot down, he noted that sharing is a cultural value that is balanced against the copyright holder's right to profit from it.
It's also interesting to note that he had to hire a lawyer to address illegal marketing of his own works.
Jesse Tinsley |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 10:05:57 PM
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| Ozzie is such a class act |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 10:56:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
Ozzie is such a class act
Amen to that. It's interesting to read Ozzie's perspective since it's from a professional performer/teacher/true student/master of slack key. My view as admin is slightly different but I needn't go into that again.
Mahalo to Ozzie for his genuine generosity to slack key and for always passing on what he learned. |
Andy |
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Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 2:52:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
I asked Ozzie for his thoughts on the matter. Here is his response:
Aloha Craig,
Sure, I'll throw in my two cents worth since "tabbing" has been a focus of mine periodically over the years.......
______________________________________________________________
(I still don't know if I am doing this correctly).
Sorry to get into this discussion so late, but that seems to be par for the course for me nowadays. Anyway, I wanted to add 'my two cents' about Ozzie Kotani and talk about what an asset he is to slack key music in particular, and to mankind in general. What a fantastic human being!! If he released a CD of only one song, I'd buy it.
When I consulted him prior to releasing my CD, he was so approachable, so unbelievably gracious, helpful, and encouraging to me, and I will never forget it. We talked at length about the problem of tablature and how to handle the distribution.
In the past 7 years, with the aid of a few computer software programs, I have made tablature arrangements for over 400 songs. Yet, for fear of infringing on some unknown copyright, I have been reluctant to share them. I only make the tab arrangements so that I can have something to refer to when I try to recall them, only to find that some section or other has escaped my memory.
But, Ozzie, to his credit (and he explains all of this in his reply to Craig), has ventured forth and put some of his arrangements out there, and we all owe him greatly for it.
When I found out from Dancing Cat that Ozzie was the arranger/composer of a song that I had wanted to record, they put me in touch with him. After he verified that it was indeed his arrangement, I told him that I would make sure to credit him on the CD notes (which I did), but, in his own modest way, he said, 'No, Bill, you don't have to do that'. Can you believe that? He is as modest as he is talented.
Well, we could start a new thread on what a great human being Ozzie Kotani is, but, when I read Craig's post, I couldn't help putting in 'my two cents worth' about Ozzie. He's a treasure.
That said, I wish there was a way for us to pass our tablatures on to one another without fear of litigation. I have found the music world to be 'a different animal'. I locked horns with Hal Leonard, Inc. about this a few years ago. Guess who won? So, how are we going to perpetuate this beautiful genre of music? Is this a problem with the Rap community? I don't know. But, I, in the tradition of musicians like Ozzie, would love to share what little I have been able to accomplish in this field with younger folks, but, short of performing, one-on-one instruction, and forums like this one, I don't really know how to do it.
But, the music is so beautiful, so universal, that we should not give up on it. Sorry for such a long, belated diatribe.
Bill C.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 7:22:44 PM
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| I have an idea as to a possible way of sharing TABS, but I'm going to do it as a seperate post, 'cause people might not check this out, thinking it's "just the old stuff." |
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Jeff Watkins
Aloha
37 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2004 : 3:44:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
I'll second Craig...
In my experience I've only had 1 artists ask me not to distribute -- and that was because I was doing a workshop for 20 people. In a different way, that was a blessing, 'cause it forced me to come up with my own version/TAB.. and it was very well received.
Some time ago,I asked George Kahumoku (and later you) how I could obtain sheet music or TAB for Moses Kahumoku's "Pohakuloa". George replied that most Hawaiians don't play with sheet music or TAB. Many books are unavailable, and the legal copyright issue clouds everything. Anything the Patch does to make slack key more available ensures its life as an art form. Thats all Ray Kane suggested.
Jeff |
Jeff Watkins |
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