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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2011 : 02:03:22 AM
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Taro Patch does not seem to be the right forum for the Mele Monday lists. There is an obvious lack of interest for it here.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 07:13:00 AM
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| The good thing about Facebook is that we get plenty conversation and support from the musicians themselves. They love watching each other's videos and they are happy we share and highlight their videos. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 07:31:13 AM
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| Sorry to hear it. I look at the list every week, and I don't do Facebook. But hey, if you feel it's better to make the musicians happier ... |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 08:08:41 AM
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The main thing about Facebook, of course, is that you can limit your friends, so you don't have to deal as much with with people you disagree with. This makes it more like pre-existing social cliques/groups where like-minded people get to reinforce their existing beliefs and opinions. This does not mean there are not fights, just fewer of them and you can un-friend anybody you have trouble with. But of course, this has consequences with folks who then un-friend you, just like in real life. 
Forums like this one are more open and as a result things can be more varied but it is also easier to get into fierce arguments. This can be both better and worse than sticking to your own set of cliques.
I don't do Facebook either, waiting for the faddishness to pass and also I require better personal privacy protections than Facebook offers. It is no accident that the terms "Facebook Rape" and "Facebook Robbery" have entered American slang.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 09:12:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Taro Patch does not seem to be the right forum for the Mele Monday lists. There is an obvious lack of interest for it here.
I usually check the links, Wanda, but typically do not reply. |
Andy |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 4:42:09 PM
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FYI:
I get crap from facebook all the time such as emails that seem to come from FaceBook members. Members including you, or Tiki Terrace, or any number or folks that friended anybody else there. They are x-rated or very suggestive--and obviously bogus. I have no Idea why someone want to do that. For instance I have had emails supposedly from you-I know it is not--that ask me to help you to choose a color for you bedroom, and much worse, etc,etc.
Now, although I have been supportive in the past, Wanda I am going to be very critical about this one. You are choosing an intrusive forum for you socializing--a place where the above events seem to occur on a regular basis, a place where folk have a need to announce when they have urinary tract infections, so go ahead and do it. It says something to me when a person prefers recording artists over everyday folks and at the same time possibly draining activity from a site that gave you whatever status that you may have. Lack of attention is all it took?
Perhaps it is best then. |
Bob |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2011 : 5:00:54 PM
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Bob - you are being a snob. What makes you think recording artists, or indeed, any musician who puts up videos any different when it comes to music. The musicians I feature on my playlist are people who love their music and play it first of all for the love of making music. Probably for the very same reasons that you play music. It seems, though, that you discount sharing their music because they are "professionals" at it or because they have recordings that are for sale. Do you discount Fran Guidry's fine videos because he has recordings that have been sold? Do you discount the fine guitar of Doug Fitch or Sray Sowders because they have videos on You Tube, yet have recordings that have sold?
Perhaps attitudes like that are why so few Hawaiians frequent this forum. Well, at least why so few of them SAY anything on this forum. Because they do periodically lurk on this website to see what might be being said about subjects that are near and dear to their hearts, that being the perpetuation of traditional Hawaiian music. One of the obvious ways of helping to perpetuate that music has been through recordings. Gabby did. Raymond Kane did, and on and on. A newer form of that type of technology is sharing videos through such web sites as You Tube.
Recording artists ARE everyday folks.
If you only like listen to "regular people", then do so. And maybe some of them will trip over your videos. And maybe you will know who is a TaroPatch member or not. Have at it, brother. Have at it. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2011 : 9:50:51 PM
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| Wanda, I think RWD's brusque response is to your opening post which also sounded a little like a brush-off. I don't get the spam/phishing from Facebook that he talks about, so I don't care. We enjoy it on Facebook since most of us are there, but please take a minute to post the link here, too, if you can. It does get some hits, if not a lot of conversation. It's a first stop for me on Mondays and I seek out the gems in the list when I don't have time to let it run all the way through. Jesse |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2011 : 08:13:52 AM
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| I 2nd Hapakid's notion. I need all the help I can get! |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2011 : 09:09:52 AM
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| I don't like to beg. Wanda - you do great work for the music we love, and I'm sorry if you don't feel appreciated enough for your efforts. If it doesn't make you happy or satisfied, don't do it; but don't stop because you don't get enough external validation. |
Edited by - Retro on 10/23/2011 09:10:08 AM |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2011 : 6:27:50 PM
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| There is obviously a segment of the youtube viewing population that prefers to view through taropatch as opposed to facebook. If you are interested in spreading the word to as many people as you possibly can, I don't know why you wouldn't want to post the list on both sites. Like having a show on CBS and ABC at the same time. |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 04:28:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Perhaps attitudes like that are why so few Hawaiians frequent this forum.
Just so that I am clear - because I have been confused about it for some time - is this forum for Hawaiians? Or is it for those interested in Hawaiian music?
To some degree, Aunty Wanda, you have now experienced the frustration first-hand that drove so many of us away long ago, and I think Bob captured the phenomenon pretty accurately. Once experts in slack key (like Peter Medeiros and Cyril Pahinui), language (Keola Donaghy and Amy Stillman), and songwriting (Dennis Kamakahi and Ken Makuakane) began frequenting this forum, the opinions of others - and specifically, mainland-dwelling, non-Hawaiian others - became of lesser and lesser importance. It sucks (sorry, I cannot think of any term more polite) to be speaking when you know nobody is listening.
It was a bit of a relief for someone like me to see the fervor over the weekly YouTube posts die a little. It was tiring - even borderline sickening - to see the repeated praise for the long-time professionals in Hawai'i and little encouragement for the efforts of a Jesse Tinsley or myself. It was wearisome to post clips from live performances I did with this forum's own host - Andy Wang, a man without whom the forum would not even exist! - and not get a single response. (We would have settled for "the guitarist on the right is slightly out of tune" over silence - just to know somebody was listening.) "Taropatchers" tune in religiously to Pakele Live for artists like Hi'ikua and Kuana Torres Kahele and enthusiastically post their praise on this forum, but when one of the forum's own performs on the same broadcast, only three taropatch.net members tune in? And how many times have I seen a post requesting assistance with a song lyric or its history with a postscript that reads, "Hopefully Keola Donaghy or Amy Stillman will see this and respond?" At some point, taropatch.net became an "Ask The Experts" forum, and for many here, clearly all of the experts are in Hawai'i - perpetuating the myth we began addressing here a long time ago that "maybe Hawaiian music is only for Hawaiians."
The beauty of this forum is that it is a little like Toronto - possibly the only litter-free city I have ever encountered. I do not come to taropatch.net and get bombarded by advertisements, XXX smut, and notifications that it is the birthday of someone I don't even remember ever meeting. I cannot find the important and interesting bits on Facebook for the dreck, and so I have stopped frequenting there because I do not have the mental and emotional bandwidth to sort it out anymore. When I come to taropatch.net, I know I am getting information about a subject I care deeply about - even when I disagree with the poster. I can honestly say that I am sad at reading this thread and sad that Wanda feels like she has to move to another forum to be "heard." But the reality is that it is something many of us (some of whom still communicate amongst ourselves privately instead of on this forum) felt a long time ago. And if we are honest with ourselves, it is a problem we created ourselves. We managed to create a class-based system on taropatch.net - complete with its own geographic and socio-economic cliques. And we put the stars of Hawaiian music in Hawai'i at the top at the risk of discounting and disenfranchizing so many others.
~ Bill
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ypochris
Lokahi
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 03:29:54 AM
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Bill.
I have to respectfully disagree with your heart-felt and well expressed opinion. I come here as someone who doesn't even play, but simply enjoys all that Hawaiian culture has to offer, including the music. Mostly I'm just here to talk story with people from home, and get a taste of Hawai'i in my day.
But I am very opinionated, and occasionally express my opinion on various subjects from a listener's point of view. I have never felt those opinions were discounted by anyone because I don't play music or don't have Hawaiian blood. And I, at least, read all the posts in the forums that interest me and take them for what I feel they are worth, which has nothing to do with race or residence.
I must admit, though, that when it comes to questions of Hawaiian language I tend to listen to those who actually speak it and appreciate their presence here. However, there is a difference between native speakers and "university Hawaiian", and variations across the chain and even the larger islands. So even on language the "experts" are not universally correct.
Each and every poster here has something unique and valuable to contribute. It saddens me that disagreements have caused so many to leave- we can agree to disagree but continue to be friends if we are polite about it. Or perhaps everyone has just moved on to Facebook, a place I don't visit for any number of reasons. But for whatever reason, Taropatch takes me home less and less often, and I am very sorry that is the case. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 07:03:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ypochris
Each and every poster here has something unique and valuable to contribute. It saddens me that disagreements have caused so many to leave- we can agree to disagree but continue to be friends if we are polite about it. Or perhaps everyone has just moved on to Facebook, a place I don't visit for any number of reasons. But for whatever reason, Taropatch takes me home less and less often, and I am very sorry that is the case.
Well said. Pretty much echoes my sentiments.
My personal opinion is that Taropatch.net is for people. Who you are, your ethnicity, whether you play or not doesn't matter to me. In fact, I have consistently said that diversity makes this a better community. I do not like it when there are disagreements, but I would prefer respectful disagreement over everyone here thinking the same thing. I did not create this site for money or recognition. I figure that it is, in a small way, my attempt to help perpetuate or give back to the music that I enjoy.
I appreciate people who share an appreciation for Hawaiian music getting together to chat and compare thoughts. Hopefully, however you ended up here, you can hang out a while and make some real friends. Those that you do not really like, you eventually come to appreciate as the "crazy uncle" of the family. It is often the different perspectives from my own that I find most interesting, where I leave feeling that I learned something.
I hope that this site can continue as a resource and provide a positive place for people to be online. Sorry to hijack the original thread, but if anyone has ideas about how to cultivate and improve this place, please drop me a line (offline.) |
Andy |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 07:54:20 AM
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I love taropatch. It has enriched my life immensely. Through it I have met and established relationships with people that have had a direct impact on the things I enjoy in life.
I love facebook. It has enriched my life immensely. Through it I have met and established relationships with people that have had a direct impact on the things I enjoy in life.
Both are great places to hang out at.
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"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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Pau Mele Monday on TaroPatch
